-- Weightlifting & Nutrition Thread -- v9.0 Optimized

[opticallyinviz]

With overtraining if you're doing bodypart splits you should only be doing 4-5 exercise per workout with a max working set of 18-20 and that's just a general rule, changes relative to everyone obviously. But it's always about the same.

Also magnus is correct, just because something worked for that one guy here doesn't mean it's the best possible way to do things.

[Sharktongue]

magnus so what is the workout? I am not one of those who will glance and read and never come back if someone says stfu or balh blah blah. If you don't mind tell me what i should do in my workout's to maximize it. I want to lose this fat, and gain muscle mass. And i have a time period i want to do it in. IF split workouts isn't where its at, can you explain what it is i need to do when i enter the gym?

[MagnusMadness]

With overtraining if you're doing bodypart splits you should only be doing 4-5 exercise per workout with a max working set of 18-20 and that's just a general rule, changes relative to everyone obviously. But it's always about the same.

Also magnus is correct, just because something worked for that one guy here doesn't mean it's the best possible way to do things.


That's one way to do it. If you lower the volume, you can decrease the number of days in the gym and even organize the exercises a little differently and *gasp* it's a push/pull/legs split. Now you have a sense of balance. Hitting muscles once a week like you always do.


People, chill. Chill.

Jorant, your goal is aesthetic right? Well, congratulations.

Magnus, you like lifting giant amounts of weight right. Well, aren't you deadlifting some huge amount of weight? Well, there you go.

Yours works for you. And then his works for his.

This has been mentioned before...wtf is aesthetics?? You train for a few things in the gym and I'm not familiar with aesthetics...You train for strength/power/size/athleticism/conditioning. Let it be known I am training for size. I'll explain more in a moment.


so, how do you create a program/routine whatever you want to call it, without overtraining arms or sholders (as in what you believe is overtraining MangusMad)??? im curious...

im outi

Roberth

Program writing isn't exactly easy to explain. The biggest problems I see with programs today are too much pushing, not enough pulling, and too much isolation. The hardest thing for most people to do is to stop thinking in terms of "bodyparts" and start thinking in terms of "movement." If you push up/pulldown...push forward/pullback...you have now effectively activated nearly every tiny inhibited muscle in your upper body.

Once you've decided how to divide up your week...not "bodyparts" but seperating movement planes. Whether it be full body routines, upper/lower, push/pull....etc. Start filling in the blanks with what you feel are the most effective compound movements

Here's a push day:

Bench press
push press
incline press
seated DB military press

Now there's ur big lifts. Now throw in some accessory work....whatever you like...perhaps to hit those tri's a little harder? How bout some overhead extensions...maybe some lateral raises or pullovers? Just remember come pull day to pull as much as you pushed...throw in some accessory work, maybe some core work (not crunches, REAL core work) Then leg day let's have some quad dominant and hip dominant exercises, maybe 2 each. Call it a day. BALANCE. I could go on for days, but I hope you get the basic jist of things.

It can get uber advanced. I can divulge more later.


Sharktongue, you live in bama still?? PM me. I can help you.

[Chaos]

Aesthetics is not trainable for. To begin with its a subjective end so it cannot even be defined between groups of people. "Aesthetic" describes a body that has pleasing lines and is symetrical. For instance most people would agree Frank Zane had an aesthetic physique (google image him). However the problem is agreeing on what a beautiful physique is isn't possibl. Its exactly like looking at chicks at a strip club, you like tits, I like ass, you like skinny, I like a little thicker, you like tall........ETC. So basically people who train for aesthetics are going for an ideal body which is typically fairly muscular and almost always quite lean.

The choking point of training for this is that the "aesthetic" quality of your body is basically predetermined before you touch a weight. Other than the effect of being very lean, which you can control (and this is heavily genetic as well) you relative muscle size, origin/insertion levels, muscle belly type, and torso/leg- clavicle width ratios are genetic. Sure you can improve but Art Atwood (again google image) cannot become 93 Flex Wheeler EVER.

Lastly believing some because they look good is not always the best idea. Drug usage basically masks many dietary and training flaws. You can juice and gain muscle mass WITHOUT working out. Jorant looks great and I give him all the respect in the world a physique isn't built without hard work. I would like to see a daily diet plan and weekly workout plan though, as well as hear about his drug use or lack of. It is quite possible that he is a mesomorph who is genetically inclined to add lean mass easily, you all know the type. No stones I'm just curious.

Again what you look like and how much you lift, ironically, are not truly indicative of how much you know about working out. They go hand in hand to a point but drug use and genes throw them off. I will tell you this though if a natural lifter (no drug use EVER) looks good then he has found what works for HIM.

Finally Magnus I feel you must not be quite so confrontational as it scares some of the readers away. I understand you deal with dogma daily and when one is passionate about something it is annoying, but you've let 2nd to God change the tone of the whole thread and replies and bumping are slowing as a result. That dude was a troll, so lets go back to healthy discussion. Jorant has NOT attacked you so let him express his opinions and you can just agree to disagree. Your not Jesus, you can't singlehandedly revolutionize weightlifting, even if it is just to the masses of SRK. Put information out there and the people who get it will research and come to their own conclusions just like you did.

[MagnusMadness]

Finally Magnus I feel you must not be quite so confrontational as it scares some of the readers away. I understand you deal with dogma daily and when one is passionate about something it is annoying, but you've let 2nd to God change the tone of the whole thread and replies and bumping are slowing as a result. That dude was a troll, so lets go back to healthy discussion. Jorant has NOT attacked you so let him express his opinions and you can just agree to disagree. Your not Jesus, you can't singlehandedly revolutionize weightlifting, even if it is just to the masses of SRK. Put information out there and the people who get it will research and come to their own conclusions just like you did.

Had someone put information like this out there when I was younger I would've soaked it up...instead of disagreeing based on.....nothing....

Anywayz....good to see u man, how's ur lifting going???

[HeaT]

let me do some calculating as to how many times i will hit Tricepts in one week on my program and then on that push you just posted, because i want to compare this...i will operate under the assumption that i will be doing 3 sets for each exercise...i will also split it up into secondary usage of tricepts and primary...

Secondary on yours...

12 sets

Primary on yours..."accessory" i would say i would do 2 primary tricept exercises so...

6 sets

Total

=18

Secondary on mine...

12

Primary on mine

9

Total

=21
------------------------------------------------------

now this is when i do a day just for arms, as oppposed to how you split it...so would you consider that overtraining??? especially when there is a rest period??? i am just curious...

also, i guess now that i think about it, i sort of do a push pull thing, with the exception of arms...i normally do chest (push), back (pull), legs, rest, arms, in that order...

anyway...

im outi

Roberth

[MagnusMadness]

let me do some calculating as to how many times i will hit Tricepts in one week on my program and then on that push you just posted, because i want to compare this...i will operate under the assumption that i will be doing 3 sets for each exercise...i will also split it up into secondary usage of tricepts and primary...

Secondary on yours...

12 sets

Primary on yours..."accessory" i would say i would do 2 primary tricept exercises so...

6 sets

Total

=18

Secondary on mine...

12

Primary on mine

9

Total

=21
------------------------------------------------------

now this is when i do a day just for arms, as oppposed to how you split it...so would you consider that overtraining??? especially when there is a rest period??? i am just curious...

also, i guess now that i think about it, i sort of do a push pull thing, with the exception of arms...i normally do chest (push), back (pull), legs, rest, arms, in that order...

anyway...

im outi

Roberth

You say secondary and primary and said "now this is when I do a day just for arms" So I'm curious...are you doing 21 total sets on arms day? Cuz that is alot. If I was fresh and I was working arms by itself....and I wouldn't....6 sets for bi's would be plenty and perhaps 6-8 for tri's. If I were you. I would do it like this:

Push/rest/legs/rest/pull....repeat the next week. Since arms are of the utmost concern to most of you guys. Have one of ur compound lifts emphasize the arm musculature. For instance...one of your horizontal pushes would be a CG bench press...then add two exercises to the end of the workout...maybe a flying movement to emphasize the pecs and another tricep exercise like Over head extensions. Now you've got 6, 4 of which should be big compound lifts, exercises on a single day. You will be taxxed like hell. Then on back make one of your compound pulling movements with a supinated grip to accentuate the biceps, maybe yates rows or chin ups. Accessory work might be reverse flies and BB curls. Again 6 exercises that are guaranteed to smoke ur back AND ur biceps. On leg day (it's in the middle of the week on purpose) Just be sure to use squats, deadlifts, and lunges. Start writing out what you want to do. Figure out what kind of periodization you think you would like, and start setting goals. Figure out what your personal bests are and start SMASHING them regularly!! It sounds like I'm talking about strength and not putting on size. But if you are getting uber strong, while eating enough and resting enough....don't ya think you will get bigger?? I have.

You could always try something with a higher frequency and go full body 3x a week....Now you aren't just hitting bi's and tri's multiple times weekly like with a standard "bodypart" split....you are hitting EVERYTHING 3x a week. Growth is unavoidable.

Overtraining is somewhat serious. There are physical symptoms such as lethargy, insomnia and loss in strength. Chances are, you are not overtraining. Chaos is right, I am VERY passionate about resistance training and I do get excited easily sometimes. It's just some things I have preached hardcore...Like periodization....no one has really asked me about it. And it is a fucking INCREDIBLE tool.

[HeaT]

You say secondary and primary and said "now this is when I do a day just for arms" So I'm curious...are you doing 21 total sets on arms day? Cuz that is alot. If I was fresh and I was working arms by itself....and I wouldn't....6 sets for bi's would be plenty and perhaps 6-8 for tri's. If I were you. I would do it like this:


for what i put that was tricepts only, so i would do a total of 21 sets (12 secondary, 9 primary) of tricepts that week...basically 18 total (9 bicept 9 tricept) sets for arms on arms day...

"You could always try something with a higher frequency and go full body 3x a week....Now you aren't just hitting bi's and tri's multiple times weekly like with a standard "bodypart" split....you are hitting EVERYTHING 3x a week. Growth is unavoidable."

I don't get this part, so you are hitting everything 3x a week, everything which also includes bicepts and tricepts, but on splits, at least mine, i only hit it 2 times a week...i guess it depends how much emphasis you put throughout the week...that is what i was trying to get at in the first place to see if overtraining occurs due to the frequency of muscle usage...

im outi

Roberth

[2nd. To God]

Aesthetics is not trainable for. To begin with its a subjective end so it cannot even be defined between groups of people. "Aesthetic" describes a body that has pleasing lines and is symetrical. For instance most people would agree Frank Zane had an aesthetic physique (google image him). However the problem is agreeing on what a beautiful physique is isn't possibl. Its exactly like looking at chicks at a strip club, you like tits, I like ass, you like skinny, I like a little thicker, you like tall........ETC. So basically people who train for aesthetics are going for an ideal body which is typically fairly muscular and almost always quite lean.

The choking point of training for this is that the "aesthetic" quality of your body is basically predetermined before you touch a weight. Other than the effect of being very lean, which you can control (and this is heavily genetic as well) you relative muscle size, origin/insertion levels, muscle belly type, and torso/leg- clavicle width ratios are genetic. Sure you can improve but Art Atwood (again google image) cannot become 93 Flex Wheeler EVER.

Lastly believing some because they look good is not always the best idea. Drug usage basically masks many dietary and training flaws. You can juice and gain muscle mass WITHOUT working out. Jorant looks great and I give him all the respect in the world a physique isn't built without hard work. I would like to see a daily diet plan and weekly workout plan though, as well as hear about his drug use or lack of. It is quite possible that he is a mesomorph who is genetically inclined to add lean mass easily, you all know the type. No stones I'm just curious.

Again what you look like and how much you lift, ironically, are not truly indicative of how much you know about working out. They go hand in hand to a point but drug use and genes throw them off. I will tell you this though if a natural lifter (no drug use EVER) looks good then he has found what works for HIM.

Finally Magnus I feel you must not be quite so confrontational as it scares some of the readers away. I understand you deal with dogma daily and when one is passionate about something it is annoying, but you've let 2nd to God change the tone of the whole thread and replies and bumping are slowing as a result. That dude was a troll, so lets go back to healthy discussion. Jorant has NOT attacked you so let him express his opinions and you can just agree to disagree. Your not Jesus, you can't singlehandedly revolutionize weightlifting, even if it is just to the masses of SRK. Put information out there and the people who get it will research and come to their own conclusions just like you did.

Young man, what makes you think that I'm some type of "troll"? If you claim I'm a "troll", then you're one as well.

[Chaos]

for what i put that was tricepts only, so i would do a total of 21 sets (12 secondary, 9 primary) of tricepts that week...basically 18 total (9 bicept 9 tricept) sets for arms on arms day...

"You could always try something with a higher frequency and go full body 3x a week....Now you aren't just hitting bi's and tri's multiple times weekly like with a standard "bodypart" split....you are hitting EVERYTHING 3x a week. Growth is unavoidable."

I don't get this part, so you are hitting everything 3x a week, everything which also includes bicepts and tricepts, but on splits, at least mine, i only hit it 2 times a week...i guess it depends how much emphasis you put throughout the week...that is what i was trying to get at in the first place to see if overtraining occurs due to the frequency of muscle usage...

im outi

Roberth


Why can you not understand that Magnus does not advocate arms specific exercises? Even if you did do arms in a full body workout it would be 3 sets bi 3 sets tri. Thats 9 sets each per week, or less that your currently doing.

BTW surely you don't do two arm days weekly?

[HeaT]

Why can you not understand that Magnus does not advocate arms specific exercises? Even if you did do arms in a full body workout it would be 3 sets bi 3 sets tri. Thats 9 sets each per week, or less that your currently doing.

BTW surely you don't do two arm days weekly?

well, i am currently doing 9 sets of bis and 9 sets of tris, PRIMARY per week...if those are 9 primary sets you are talking about then it is not less then I am doing...

that is what im trying to understand is why, no i dont do two arm days, i thought that was clear from what i posted...and i also posted how my workouts go LOL...

im outi

Roberth

[MagnusMadness]

well, i am currently doing 9 sets of bis and 9 sets of tris, PRIMARY per week...if those are 9 primary sets you are talking about then it is not less then I am doing...

that is what im trying to understand is why, no i dont do two arm days, i thought that was clear from what i posted...and i also posted how my workouts go LOL...

im outi

Roberth

The "why" is because you don't have to. People place unneccessary emphasis on arm musculature. No single muscle was meant to work in isolation. Pushing movements alone are enough to stimulate growth in the triceps and the same goes for pulling movements and the biceps. Past that, any extra emphasis placed on the arms can and IMO should be kept to a minimum. Building a proportioned, symmetrical well balanced figure not only looks better to me...but leaves less room for haters to criticize and even helps prevent injury due to muscular imbalances.


"You could always try something with a higher frequency and go full body 3x a week....Now you aren't just hitting bi's and tri's multiple times weekly like with a standard "bodypart" split....you are hitting EVERYTHING 3x a week. Growth is unavoidable."

High frequency isn't bad if it's set up properly, it's awesome...nothing will net you gains in size faster!! But it's not done by doing 10 sets one day and another 10 at the end of the week. That much direct work requires more time to recover. What you would do is divide those 10 sets up over the course of a few workouts to keep protein synthesis elevated ALL the time!! You don't have to destroy a muscle everytime you workout to stimulate growth. And that's the point behind full body routines. You provide an almost constant growth stimulus while leaving yourself plenty of time to rest and grow. I work at a gym and only workout 4 days a week.


If you are interested, I can help u put something together, if not just for you to try it out and see what you think. Worst case scenario is that it would at least be "as good" as anything you've ever done.

[Soldier Zero]

I'm about to buy that IDS's Smart Gainer, chocolate caramel best flavor to go with?

Also, good read last 1 1/2 pages.

[HeaT]

The "why" is because you don't have to. People place unneccessary emphasis on arm musculature. No single muscle was meant to work in isolation. Pushing movements alone are enough to stimulate growth in the triceps and the same goes for pulling movements and the biceps. Past that, any extra emphasis placed on the arms can and IMO should be kept to a minimum. Building a proportioned, symmetrical well balanced figure not only looks better to me...but leaves less room for haters to criticize and even helps prevent injury due to muscular imbalances.



High frequency isn't bad if it's set up properly, it's awesome...nothing will net you gains in size faster!! But it's not done by doing 10 sets one day and another 10 at the end of the week. That much direct work requires more time to recover. What you would do is divide those 10 sets up over the course of a few workouts to keep protein synthesis elevated ALL the time!! You don't have to destroy a muscle everytime you workout to stimulate growth. And that's the point behind full body routines. You provide an almost constant growth stimulus while leaving yourself plenty of time to rest and grow. I work at a gym and only workout 4 days a week.


If you are interested, I can help u put something together, if not just for you to try it out and see what you think. Worst case scenario is that it would at least be "as good" as anything you've ever done.


sure im interested to see what you will put together...how long will the program be??? i am willing to give it 3 months...let me know what info you need...

im outi

Roberth

[MagnusMadness]

sure im interested to see what you will put together...how long will the program be??? i am willing to give it 3 months...let me know what info you need...

im outi

Roberth

What are you training for?

How many days a week are you interested in training?

Do you have any injuries/surgeries I might need to know about?

[doujinshi_2001]

If you are interested, I can help u put something together, if not just for you to try it out and see what you think. Worst case scenario is that it would at least be "as good" as anything you've ever done.

Can I get on this too? I'm interested as well. Thx



I was recently thinking about gaining weight. If you really wanted to put on pounds, you should work your legs. Your quads are already HUGE. Length from knee to hip versus should to elbow. And then of course, if you've never worked legs, you will gain "Beginner" level growth!:-)

Oh wow I didn't know that good shit. Maybe thats been my problem + poor diet....

[HeaT]

What are you training for?

How many days a week are you interested in training?

Do you have any injuries/surgeries I might need to know about?


I am training for getting bigger, putting on more muscle...

I can train 4-5 days a week, generally i would like 4 days a week, as that is what i am doing currently and it fits well with my schedule...

I had a knee problem that I had talked about earlier, but it seems to be fine now...

im outi

Roberth

[MagnusMadness]

I am training for getting bigger, putting on more muscle...

I can train 4-5 days a week, generally i would like 4 days a week, as that is what i am doing currently and it fits well with my schedule...

I had a knee problem that I had talked about earlier, but it seems to be fine now...

im outi

Roberth

You have a full gym available?? Dumbells, Barbells, and cable stacks??

[HeaT]

You have a full gym available?? Dumbells, Barbells, and cable stacks??

...

ya dude, i work out at a gym...

im outi

Roberth

[Reckless Fire]

Yeah, I need to get big. But I'm on the go a lot. So I don't really get to eat (that's bad right?) Is there something I can just throw in my bag, and eat for lunch later. I don't really like sandwiches. But if that's the only thing.......

[JuiceM0nkey]

Young man, what makes you think that I'm some type of "troll"? If you claim I'm a "troll", then you're one as well.

He meant to say......YOUR A FUCKING LYING DOUCH BAG:rofl:

[opticallyinviz]

Yeah, I need to get big. But I'm on the go a lot. So I don't really get to eat (that's bad right?) Is there something I can just throw in my bag, and eat for lunch later. I don't really like sandwiches. But if that's the only thing.......


Seriosuly if that's your problem then you're not even trying.

I always cook meals the night before and just bring them to school/work.


I also love the petty shit going on in this thread. it's really weird how so many bodybuilders or even guys that just work out are just so fucking childish. Seriously, it's a forum. Stop responding to each other.

[VruS]

Yeah, I need to get big. But I'm on the go a lot. So I don't really get to eat (that's bad right?) Is there something I can just throw in my bag, and eat for lunch later. I don't really like sandwiches. But if that's the only thing.......

I'm in the same boat, with college starting it's going to have to be tuna / turkey sandwhiches or chicken @ subway. If it comes down to it, I'm willing to cook the night before a meal, but i need some suggestions on what to cook.

**i'm also interested in magnus's program for heat because I'll probably try it out also. I've been using max-ot for the summer and while i havn't been strict on myself, i've seen some nice strength gains, but i'd like to put on a bit of mass too.

[Pat the Great]

hey magnus, i'm thinking of trying out that workout that you keep posting. i've never done deadlifts before, though, and i'm kind of worried of fucking up my form and hurting my back in the process. i'm at a small school gym so while we have the equipment not many people have any idea how to do anything more complicated than a bench press. any suggestions for alternatives, or should i try it anyway?

[denjin]

doujinshi_2001, thanks for the comments:-) Good to know someone's reading my posts.

Pat the Great, (doing this weightless,) stand up with perfect posture. Then slowly sit on something at about knee height. The entire time, have your hand on your lower back. The second you feel your back start to curve, poof, that's the height you shouldn't go lower than while working out. And of course, give it about 3 seconds, and someone will jump in and correct me.

[Latinofighter]

Hi I have pt test in a few weeks for the military. Is there a way to maximize my push ups/sit ups in a few weeks besides doing more of them? Is there a way to work the muscles that these excersises consist of more effectively to give me better and or quicker results?

[MagnusMadness]

I haven't forgotten about the program I promised. I'm actually going to put a couple together and give you a choice....with a few different kinds of periodization. And I'm going to have it looked at by some others. It will take a little time.

[b1gazn]

Magnus, I was looking for a new workout. Lemme try yours out when you are done with it too.

[Soldier Zero]

Eh, gym access is limited right now and school's taking up a whole lot more time than I thought, what should I be doing to maintain my current shape and size?

[hn2682]

I haven't forgotten about the program I promised. I'm actually going to put a couple together and give you a choice....with a few different kinds of periodization. And I'm going to have it looked at by some others. It will take a little time.

I'm interested too. Thanks for all the contributions to this thread.

[HeaT]

I haven't forgotten about the program I promised. I'm actually going to put a couple together and give you a choice....with a few different kinds of periodization. And I'm going to have it looked at by some others. It will take a little time.

sounds thorough, good stuff, i will be waiting...

im outi

Roberth

[2nd. To God]

He meant to say......YOUR A FUCKING LYING DOUCH BAG:rofl:


It's "you're" not "your". You're a lying "douch bag". You kids and these strange words. Go to bed.

[kainzero]

i've been going to the gym since the beginning of this year, mostly just to learn new exercises with proper form. i'm 5'9, 155lb, weak as fuck. i dropped from 175lb in the beginning of this year, likely a result from my diet in mainly cutting any drinks with calories in them (sticking to water/green tea) and eating more fish. my goals are to bulk up and to become more athletic, and i still consider myself a beginner... i'm sure the laughs were going around the gym this morning with my laughable mount for decline db presses =P oh, and that time i did squats with the bb on my spine... it was hell for the next 3 days =X

can someone critique my routine? i've been looking through this thread for a while, talking to several other friends who workout, researching online, and i came up with this.

i go every other day, this is what i do:

day 1-
Clean and Press
Back Squats
Good Mornings
Decline DB Press

day 2-
Deadlift
DB Arnold Press
BB Bent over rows
Assisted Dips
Assisted Pullups

week 1: 3x10
week 2: 4x8
week 3: 5x5
repeat

supplements (if you can call it that): the protein powder at costco, centrum

some noob questions:
how often should i try new weight? i started this routine today and i could barely clean and press just the O-bar using 3x10, more of the press than the clean. still, it was fucking exhausting and felt really good.

are flat feet a big problem? while doing squats it feels like i have to do everything in my power to keep my knees from buckling inward and my feet from pointing outward. i'm not sure if that's a result of poor muscle balance or the feet.

how do you avoid the energy crash afterwards? i eat a ton after i workout but i'm still struggling to stay awake... it's not too big a problem since i'm unemployed but i don't want to constantly be taking naps after workouts.

[Dice Man]

It's "you're" not "your". You're a lying "douch bag". You kids and these strange words. Go to bed.


How is JuiceMonkey a lying, when he has pics to prove it??
While your lame lying ass does'nt have shit:arazz:

[Soldier Zero]

i've been going to the gym since the beginning of this year, mostly just to learn new exercises with proper form. i'm 5'9, 155lb, weak as fuck. i dropped from 175lb in the beginning of this year, likely a result from my diet in mainly cutting any drinks with calories in them (sticking to water/green tea) and eating more fish. my goals are to bulk up and to become more athletic, and i still consider myself a beginner... i'm sure the laughs were going around the gym this morning with my laughable mount for decline db presses =P oh, and that time i did squats with the bb on my spine... it was hell for the next 3 days =X

can someone critique my routine? i've been looking through this thread for a while, talking to several other friends who workout, researching online, and i came up with this.

i go every other day, this is what i do:

day 1-
Clean and Press
Back Squats
Good Mornings
Decline DB Press

day 2-
Deadlift
DB Arnold Press
BB Bent over rows
Assisted Dips
Assisted Pullups

week 1: 3x10
week 2: 4x8
week 3: 5x5
repeat

supplements (if you can call it that): the protein powder at costco, centrum

some noob questions:
how often should i try new weight? i started this routine today and i could barely clean and press just the O-bar using 3x10, more of the press than the clean. still, it was fucking exhausting and felt really good.

are flat feet a big problem? while doing squats it feels like i have to do everything in my power to keep my knees from buckling inward and my feet from pointing outward. i'm not sure if that's a result of poor muscle balance or the feet.

how do you avoid the energy crash afterwards? i eat a ton after i workout but i'm still struggling to stay awake... it's not too big a problem since i'm unemployed but i don't want to constantly be taking naps after workouts.

I'll just say some things real quick since I'm about to sleep. Add a day 3 with bench press, lunges, bent-over DB rows, and and probably one or two more exercises. I think lat pulldown would be good for the one of the other days. Make the workout days Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

I don't clean and press, but if I remember, it's pretty hard even on low weight. Try new weight every 2 or 3 weeks, but if your form is bad, go back to do what you were doing in my opinion.

Flat feet shouldn't be a problem, but maybe try a wider stance to see if that's more comfortable.

Protein powder is fine (though I don't like Costco's brand), but I don't think centrum is needed if you have a good diet.

I tried answering off the top of my head, I think someone else should advise you about your lifting program.

[MagnusMadness]

i've been going to the gym since the beginning of this year, mostly just to learn new exercises with proper form. i'm 5'9, 155lb, weak as fuck. i dropped from 175lb in the beginning of this year, likely a result from my diet in mainly cutting any drinks with calories in them (sticking to water/green tea) and eating more fish. my goals are to bulk up and to become more athletic, and i still consider myself a beginner... i'm sure the laughs were going around the gym this morning with my laughable mount for decline db presses =P oh, and that time i did squats with the bb on my spine... it was hell for the next 3 days =X

can someone critique my routine? i've been looking through this thread for a while, talking to several other friends who workout, researching online, and i came up with this.

i go every other day, this is what i do:

day 1-
Clean and Press
Back Squats
Good Mornings
Decline DB Press

day 2-
Deadlift
DB Arnold Press
BB Bent over rows
Assisted Dips
Assisted Pullups

week 1: 3x10
week 2: 4x8
week 3: 5x5
repeat

supplements (if you can call it that): the protein powder at costco, centrum

some noob questions:
how often should i try new weight? i started this routine today and i could barely clean and press just the O-bar using 3x10, more of the press than the clean. still, it was fucking exhausting and felt really good.

are flat feet a big problem? while doing squats it feels like i have to do everything in my power to keep my knees from buckling inward and my feet from pointing outward. i'm not sure if that's a result of poor muscle balance or the feet.

how do you avoid the energy crash afterwards? i eat a ton after i workout but i'm still struggling to stay awake... it's not too big a problem since i'm unemployed but i don't want to constantly be taking naps after workouts.

You are going every other day right?? Here's some changes, make it a full body routine...3 days a week...And the reason I'm dropping the cleans from this is because although a clean and press, or cleans specifically is a GREAT exercise. It is an exercise for strength and power, and shouldn't be performed outside of 5 reps IMO. Form begins to fall apart when fatigue sets in and you are just programming bad motor patterns at this point. So when I say "push press" it's the press part of the clean and press, a standing military press with the barbell, using a little leg action to get the weight moving...I'm adding an exercise or two to the routine but it shouldn't be too much for you to finish in an hour or less. I myself would add more to my own routine but this will be fine....the first day will have an emphasis on pushing and the second will have the emphasis on pulling...

Day1:
Back Squats
Push Press
Bent Rows
Decline DB Press
Good Mornings

Day 2:
Deadlifts
Assisted Pull ups
Assisted Dips
DB rows
Lunges

You periodize intensity which is great...and that periodization looks REALLY familiar :wink: Try this, it's something I've done recently and I like it.

3x12
4x8
3x5 (unloading this week...use the same weight you moved 8 times the prior week)
5x5....then repeat.

Try new weight when you can I set goals for each workout. If I benched 225 for 12 reps this month, then next time I'm doing 3x12 I'm going to try for 230-235 and see how it goes. Now what you are looking for is nothing drastic, but consistent performance improvement. Try to move too fast and you will dissapoint urself and/or hurt yourself.

When squatting if your knees are wanting to buckle...you probably have weak quads....as they get stronger the knee joint should become more stable, and the lunges may also help. If your toes want to point outward...I attribute this to a few things but it could be a number of things. Here's the list...You are probably bearing most of the weight on the balls of your feet, which might be poor ankle mobility/tight hip flexors/weak core/bad form. Try to break ur hips first and come back on the heels/middle of ur foot without leaning forward so much you bear the weight on the balls of your feet.

There's nothing wrong with taking naps. I love them.

[2nd. To God]

How is JuiceMonkey a lying, when he has pics to prove it??
While your lame lying ass does'nt have shit:arazz:

I recommend that your "lame lying ass" stay on topic.

[MagnusMadness]

I have 3 programs to choose from. You workout roughly 4 days a week and want size, so I chose an upper/lower split. It's also what I do...the first one will very much resemble my current program that I like very much. In all 3 versions the leg days are the same...what will change is the exercise selection for each given upper body day...You can try each one...but to really tell if the program is working for you or not is going to take at LEAST 2 months. In light of that I recommend you pick one based on what you think you will LIKE. That will better your chances of sticking to it. Now some of these exercises can be changed for others, but I did choose every exercise somewhat carefully for a reason, so if you decide you would like to make any changes to what I recommend then post what you want to change, and I will give it a thumbs up or down and why. Also, if you are using one of my programs I'm outlining right now, then post up which one you are doing and what form of periodization. I will again, give the yay or nay and my reasoning. Please don't bastardize what I'm givin u right here guys, I did this for free, I really want you to try this out how I intended it to be done, and I think you will be pleased with the results. And one last thing before I give you the program choices...if you are training for size....you MUST EAT....ALOT!! These programs are geared towards increased size but if you eat shit twice a day you will not grow, so DON'T BLAME THE PROGRAM....blame your diet.

Workouts are to be done in this weekly fashion Upper/Lower/off/upper/lower/off/off.

Version 1.0
Upper:
Bench Press
Bent Rows (pronated or palms down)
Seated DB Military press
Close Grip Lat pulldowns (use the handle that allows a neutral grip or palms facing each other)
ACCESSORY:
Incline flies/Reverse flies Superset

Lower:
Back Squats
Romanian Deadlifts
Lunges (stationary, step out..lunge...step back....repeat with other leg for desired reps)

Upper2:
WideGrip Lat pulldowns
Push Press (or standing military press...the "push" is ur legs snapping to get the weight moving)
Dumbell Rows
Incline Press
ACCESSORY:
Pullovers/Lateral Raises Superset

Lower2:
Deadlifts
Front squats (or if you hate these like I do, try bulgarian split squats)
Good Mornings



Version 2.0 (places much greater emphasis on arm musculature)

Upper:
Bench Press
Yates Rows (supinated grip, or palms facing upward)
Dips
Close Grip Lat pulldowns
ACCESSORY:
Barbell Curls/Kickbacks Superset

Upper2:
Supinated Lat pulldowns (form: think chin up on a lat pulldown machine)
Push Press
Dumbell Rows
Close Grip Bench Press
ACCESSORY:
Seated Overhead Tricep Extensions (dumbell or camber bar)/Hammer curls Superset



Version 3.0 (first upper body day is only horizontal movements, second day is vertical movements)

Upper:
Bench Press
Bent Rows
Incline Press
Dumbell Rows
ACCESSORY:
BB curls/kickbacks Superset

Upper2:
Lat pulldowns
Push Press
CG lat pulls
Dips
ACCESSORY:
Seated Overhead tricep extensions/hammer curls Superset

PERIODIZATION

Linear: (we are training for size I chose to increase volume linearly)
Wk1: 3x8
2: 4x8
3: 5x8 (drop accessory work this week)
4: UNLOAD 3x5 **using same weight as week 1**
repeat

Resting Intervals for this form should be 30-90 seconds. Be consistant with resting intervals as intensity isn't changing just volume.

Alternating: (this form I chose to change intensity weekly)
1) 3x8
2) 3x12
3) 3x5 (superset antagonistic muscle groups and drop the accessory work)
4) UNLOAD: 3x5 with weights from week 1
repeat

Rest Intervals should be longer (IMO) for the weeks with heavier weights...so...the heavier the weight, the longer you rest between sets...up to 2 minutes.

Undulating: (my favorite, we manipulate volume AND intensity and this particular model is what I'm currently using)

1) 3x12
2) 4x8
3) UNLOAD: 3x5 using weight from week 2
4) 5x5 (drop accessory work)
repeat

Resting intervals will be the same as with alternating periodization. Heavier weights= longer rests

Also, only periodize the main lifts....don't be doing 5 rep maxes with barbell curls...you are going for size, keep the weights for the accessory work low enough to complete 8-12 reps every week. And don't be surprised if these lifts don't jump up like ur big compound lifts...on weeks you unload or have lower volume or intensity you may be able to do more weight with the accessory work, but more intense, longer weeks will drain those arms before you get to em.

The forms of periodization I listed are examples and a good start....you can do all kinds of shit with periodization. I'm sure 2nd to God/opticallyinvis/juice monkey may know more about the different forms of periodization and how to manipulate variables better than me. If anyone of the more experienced lifters would like to make any suggestions please feel free to do so...but I will probably have a reason why I chose to do things a certain way.

Hope this helps....it was a very long post and I'm sorry...I may have accidentily left something out, if I recall anything I will post back up. Have fun, hope you guys like this.

[mr. newbie]

can't deadlift with dumbbells huh?

[MagnusMadness]

can't deadlift with dumbbells huh?

You can do the Romanian Deadlifts with dumbells...the lunges with dumbells or barbell, or the bulgarian split squat with barbell or dumbells. I would prefer you not use a barbell for everything to take some stress off the spine, but for back squats and deadlifts, I really prefer you use a barbell.

[MagnusMadness]

http://www.bsu.edu/webapps2/strengthlab/home.htm

Here is a decent website with exercise instruction as well as video of the exercises being performed and IMO performed very well.

If you haven't done some of these exercises, I strongly advise you seek help from an experienced lifter and if what they prescribe deviates too far from the video you saw on this website....find another person to critique your form. Regardless of experience, some lifters just don't do shit right. I see it all the time.

And if you haven't performed a few of these exercises...then for at least 2 weeks...please hammer the form and perform sets of 12-15 reps with submaximal weight....

[kainzero]

magnus and soldier:

thanks for the tips =P

i love doing the cleans. i also realized my form was awful for the clean and press, it was more like a clean, then a mil press. so basically, my upper traps are killing me now =\ i really want to keep them in my routine though, i want to train up my explosiveness since i don't really have any. plus i really enjoy doing it, so that keeps me in the gym. i want to at least stick it with for a few weeks and see if i improve, if not, i'll check the push press.

i'm still experiencing my large gains as a beginner, so i'm unsure about periodization and whether it would help me at this time. i'm wondering if i should 3x10 everything for 3 weeks before beginning periodization, especially since i'm trying a lot of new stuff and i want to be sure to get the form down... which is hard since i really don't trust anyone else in the gym with their critique of my form when they're doing shitty 1/4 smith machine squats and 5-day-a-week biceps+chest routines. and the best practice i can get at home is with a pvc pipe.

i'm definitely feeling the lunges though, and instead of a push press i'm thinking about just going with a military press for now. i used to have lat pulldown in my routine but i don't really like it because it's a machine and i generally don't like machines =P and i don't do BB benches because i don't trust anyone in the gym and haven't safely figured out my maxes.

i read that assisted pullups/dips aren't good because they limit your body to 1 dimension of movement. i can barely 3x5 the chinups with no momentum and i can 3x8 dips but not with good form, should i do those or should i use the assist machine? i love the workout i get in the core when i do chinups, but i don't like doing 15 reps max. lastly, i used to do DB rows when my friend told me to do BB rows instead because the form was easier. since i want to start doing DB rows now, what advice can you give me on form? i've seen a bunch of videos but sometimes watching somebody and doing something is completely different as i've learned many times on my deadlifts and squats.

so now i'm thinking, 3 days a week,:

day 1-
hang clean and press
squat
bb lunges
db rows
good mornings
decline or flat db press

day 2-
deadlift
standing military press
dips
pullups
bb rows

[MagnusMadness]

magnus and soldier:

thanks for the tips =P

i love doing the cleans. i also realized my form was awful for the clean and press, it was more like a clean, then a mil press. so basically, my upper traps are killing me now =\ i really want to keep them in my routine though, i want to train up my explosiveness since i don't really have any. plus i really enjoy doing it, so that keeps me in the gym. i want to at least stick it with for a few weeks and see if i improve, if not, i'll check the push press.

i'm still experiencing my large gains as a beginner, so i'm unsure about periodization and whether it would help me at this time. i'm wondering if i should 3x10 everything for 3 weeks before beginning periodization, especially since i'm trying a lot of new stuff and i want to be sure to get the form down... which is hard since i really don't trust anyone else in the gym with their critique of my form when they're doing shitty 1/4 smith machine squats and 5-day-a-week biceps+chest routines. and the best practice i can get at home is with a pvc pipe.

i'm definitely feeling the lunges though, and instead of a push press i'm thinking about just going with a military press for now. i used to have lat pulldown in my routine but i don't really like it because it's a machine and i generally don't like machines =P and i don't do BB benches because i don't trust anyone in the gym and haven't safely figured out my maxes.

i read that assisted pullups/dips aren't good because they limit your body to 1 dimension of movement. i can barely 3x5 the chinups with no momentum and i can 3x8 dips but not with good form, should i do those or should i use the assist machine? i love the workout i get in the core when i do chinups, but i don't like doing 15 reps max. lastly, i used to do DB rows when my friend told me to do BB rows instead because the form was easier. since i want to start doing DB rows now, what advice can you give me on form? i've seen a bunch of videos but sometimes watching somebody and doing something is completely different as i've learned many times on my deadlifts and squats.

so now i'm thinking, 3 days a week,:

day 1-
hang clean and press
squat
bb lunges
db rows
good mornings
decline or flat db press

day 2-
deadlift
standing military press
dips
pullups
bb rows


If you can't do alot of dips in good form and can't do a bunch of pull ups....then start somewhere else...eventually working back to them....you can do close grip bench presses and Lat Pulldowns to strengthen the corresponding muscle groups.

I outlined a good program for you to start with using, for the most part, the exercises you are already doing....but whatever. Try and balance out ur program a little bit. If you are going to do cleans then you are going to have to realize that it is a technique HEAVY movement. You need to do 5 reps or less with submaximal weight.

[b1gazn]

MagnusMadness: Did you ever write that program out(where the days were based on pulling, pushing and legs)? I definently need a new one but I am too lazy to make one for myself.

[HeaT]

before i pick, i have some questions:

1. When you say "incline press" is this an incline bench press? If so, with dumbells or barbell?

2. When you say "dumbell rows", is this one handed dumbell rows? or is it like barbell rows but with dumbells? (basically you pulling up dumbells in both hands at the same time?)

3. "CG lat pulls" <--- close grip lat pulls? with supinted grip?

4. For periodization: so do you increase weight the next set? so for example, first week is 3x8 so first set is done, the second set do you want me to increase weight? and then increase weight again the last set. OR do you want us to do whatever weight we can do 3x8 with even if it is the same weight each set?

5. The 4th week you say "unload" what do you mean by this because it is 5x5 or 3x5 with weight from week 1, which i assume will be less than then what would have gotten to by week 4...so you are doing light weight and these sets should be easy at lower reps and light weight?

im outi

Roberth

ps...like i said i will give this 3 months, but if you say that it only needs 2 months then ill run with that, also, what happens after these 2 months? what would you do, try another version? i am assuming that is what you would do, or write up another program based on where you got at that point...at least that is what i do, i tend to think about another program based on where i get after 3 months...

[hn2682]

Workouts are to be done in this weekly fashion Upper/Lower/off/upper/lower/off/off.



On the days "off" would cardio be good?

[MagnusMadness]

1. When you say "incline press" is this an incline bench press? If so, with dumbells or barbell?

Yes, you can use either...but don't do all your pressing movements with a bar. If you flat bench press with a bar, incline press with dumbells....this just takes some pressure off the shoulder joints...But if you pick one...stick with it for the entirety of the program. If you are constantly switching say grips and switching up say squat stance or switching between dumbells or a barbell with the same exercises, the weight you move will also change constantly, making it harder to gage whether or not you are actually progressing in the weights department and/or make it more difficult to set goals each month. Also by switching things up you won't be aware of what weight you can move x amount of times. I.E. "I can press 100lbs 10 times with a barbell, but I don't know how many times I can press 50lb dumbells.."

It's important that you stick to what you are doing and write your numbers down now that you are periodizing your workouts. I couldn't tell you what I benched last month for 12 reps...or if I got all my reps in on the last set... feel me??


2. When you say "dumbell rows", is this one handed dumbell rows? or is it like barbell rows but with dumbells? (basically you pulling up dumbells in both hands at the same time?)

yes, one arm at a time.


3. "CG lat pulls" <--- close grip lat pulls? with supinted grip?

yes, close grip lat pulls. Use the handle from the pulley row station...you know the one where your hands are close together and ur palms are facing each other??

When your palms are facing each other it's called a neutral grip. When your palms are facing up as in a dumbell curl, it's supinated grip....or if you are say doing reverse curls where your palms are facing down, it's pronated grip..The main difference between the two on the pulling movements in the programs I outline is that when you say do rows with a pronated grip, more emphasis will be placed on the rear delts and traps through shoulder abduction...when you do the same bent rows with a supinated grip (yates rows) it places more emphasis on the biceps. Both articulations work the lats.


4. For periodization: so do you increase weight the next set? so for example, first week is 3x8 so first set is done, the second set do you want me to increase weight? and then increase weight again the last set. OR do you want us to do whatever weight we can do 3x8 with even if it is the same weight each set?

It's periodized weekly. So ur first week would be 3 sets of 8 for every exercise. *excluding accessory work...that is all done between 8 and 12 reps*. Pick a weight that you can move for all 3 sets for 8 reps...don't pyramid up or down or anything like that. You shouldn't train to failure all the time...so ur first set maybe you could've done 10, just do 8...and try to get 8 reps the next two sets as well. The second week you will do 4 sets of 8 (this is the linear model) and the 3rd week 5x8...the 4th week you will do 3x5 and you will look back at how much weight you used the first week and use that. This allows some of the fatigue you've been building up for the past month to dissipate...here's an example

My first week I bench 200 for 8 reps....on the 4th week I'm going to bench 200 for 5 reps...so naturally it will be a light week, and will allow me to more fully recover.

BTW....I really don't like the linear model...I could've gotten more complicated with linear periodization but I don't like linear models in general so I didn't....that model is a poor example...You would be much better off with the alternating or undulating models I posted.


ps...like i said i will give this 3 months, but if you say that it only needs 2 months then ill run with that, also, what happens after these 2 months? what would you do, try another version? i am assuming that is what you would do, or write up another program based on where you got at that point...at least that is what i do, i tend to think about another program based on where i get after 3 months...

You can run the program as long as you like....I said at LEAST two months because at the 2 month mark you will have done each week twice. I've been doing my current split..(tweaking as I go) for the past FEW months....as long as it doesn't get stale, you don't HAVE to change anything. I myself like to try new stuff, kinda test my knowledge on a real person, feel me? When I get bored with this I might try full body routines...if I don't like it, or it gets stale, I plan on changing biometers.


MagnusMadness: Did you ever write that program out(where the days were based on pulling, pushing and legs)? I definently need a new one but I am too lazy to make one for myself.

Here ya go....

Push:
Bench Press
Push Press
Incline Press
Dips
Overhead Tricep extensions

Legs:
Squats
Romanian Deadlifts
Lunges
Hip Extensions

Pull:
Bent Rows
Lat Pulldowns
DB rows
Close Grip lat pulldowns
BB curls

Use one of the forms of periodization from my other post...

Just so you guys know...these are kinda general programs. If I could see your gym and what you are capable of and asses ur strengths and weaknesses...it would be very different. But I hope this helps and perhaps changes some of u guys minds about training methods and protocols and really pushes you to the next level...

[DRADIX]

MAX-OT = GREAT GAINS (At least for me anyway)

http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/Max-Ot_Complete_Routine/m_390/tm.htm

Read it, understand it then hit the weights.

DRADIX

[b1gazn]

.

Thanks.

Ima start it on Thursday, since I did my legs earlier today.

Whats a hip extension?

[MagnusMadness]

Thanks.

Ima start it on Thursday, since I did my legs earlier today.

Whats a hip extension?

It's a very light hip/hamstring exercise. Consider it like an accessory exercise...If you have an exercise ball at ur gym, then lie down on your back prop ur feet on the ball to where your upper thighs are almost perpendicular to the ground and push ur hips into the air...

Couldn't find a picture for you...maybe you can google it if you don't get the idea from my description....

Perform this exercise for a few more reps....it's easy...like 10-12 reps...don't periodize this...

[DRADIX]

It truly is nice to find other people with knowledge about weighlifting on SRK. When I was new to weightling I used http://bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.htm and http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html to learn the proper form for many exercises. Videos are always best when trying to learn the proper form for exercises. Ideally you would want to have a trainer show you in person but that is not always possible.

Also, Magnus how long have you been training? You are quite knowledgeable. (Yes, I know I am new to this thread but not to weightlifting)

DRADIX

[HeaT]

yes, close grip lat pulls. Use the handle from the pulley row station...you know the one where your hands are close together and ur palms are facing each other??

When your palms are facing each other it's called a neutral grip. When your palms are facing up as in a dumbell curl, it's supinated grip....or if you are say doing reverse curls where your palms are facing down, it's pronated grip..The main difference between the two on the pulling movements in the programs I outline is that when you say do rows with a pronated grip, more emphasis will be placed on the rear delts and traps through shoulder abduction...when you do the same bent rows with a supinated grip (yates rows) it places more emphasis on the biceps. Both articulations work the lats.


ya i was checking because you had the same exercise listed twice but i felt that one was with different grip, just trying to figure out which one...

i will look it over and i will tell you which i have picked...

im outi

Roberth

[Soldier Zero]

Good stuff Magnus. :tup:

[MagnusMadness]

It truly is nice to find other people with knowledge about weighlifting on SRK. When I was new to weightling I used http://bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.htm and http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html to learn the proper form for many exercises. Videos are always best when trying to learn the proper form for exercises. Ideally you would want to have a trainer show you in person but that is not always possible.

Also, Magnus how long have you been training? You are quite knowledgeable. (Yes, I know I am new to this thread but not to weightlifting)

DRADIX

heh, if you are asking how long I've been working out...less than 5 years cumulatively speaking...I've been a professional trainer just a short while now...Thank you for the compliment...

[Soldier Zero]

Are exercises like push ups, arm circles, sit ups, ect. useful for anything? And are they called isometric exercises?

[MagnusMadness]

Are exercises like push ups, arm circles, sit ups, ect. useful for anything? And are they called isometric exercises?

There are some good bodyweight exercises out there....but IMO they are more for conditioning..I really don't see push ups giving anyone a big chest (perhaps bigger or helping them bench press more weight...

Isometric exercises are ones in which muscles contract isometrically...meaning there is tension but no movement...for instance, when you hold a plank...there is a lot of tension in the trunk stabilizers but no movement....

[Remy Martin]

Are exercises like push ups, arm circles, sit ups, ect. useful for anything? And are they called isometric exercises?


isometric would be like pushing against a wall that wont move... i think the word you were looking for was calisthenics...maybe?

[Soldier Zero]

^Maybe, but thanks anyways Remy and Magnus. I was wondering why some people focus on them so much.

[Remy Martin]

MUSCLE MEDIA 2000 EXPOSES
30 OF BODYBUILDING'S BIGGEST LIES
THAT STAND BETWEEN YOU AND SUCCESS!
By T.C. Luoma and Bill Phillips.


1 -- You can get as big as a pro bodybuilder. without taking steroids; it just takes longer.
Despite what many of the magazines say, all professional bodybuilders use either steroids or steroids in combination with other growth-enhancing drugs. Without manipulating hormones, it just isn't possible to get that degree of muscularity, the paper-thin skin, and the continuing ability to pack on mass, despite sometimes having poor workout habits and relative ignorance of the principles involved that many pro bodybuilders have. Many supplement distributors, in order to sell their products, would have you believe otherwise.
Still, that's no reason to give up. By using state-of-the-art training principles, consuming a nutrient-rich diet, and by getting proper amounts of rest, almost every person can make incredible changes in his or her physique. The competitive bodybuilder circuit may not be in your future, but building the kind of physique that gains you respect is certainly achievable, as are self-respect and robust health.
2 -- In order to get really big, you have to eat a super-high-calorie diet.
Well, that's true; you'll get really big if you eat a super high-calorie diet, but you'll look like the Michelin Man's fraternal twin. However, if you want to get big, lean-tissue wise, then super-high-calorie diets are probably not for you unless you are one of those very few people with metabolicrates so fast you can burn off these calories instead of depositing them as fat. Unfortunately, studies show that, in most people, about 65% of the new tissue gains brought about by high-calorie diets consists of fat! Of the remaining 35%, approximately 15% consists of increased intracellular fluid volume, leaving a very modest percentage attributable to increased lean muscle mass.
According to Dr Scott Connelly (MM2K, Spring 1992, p. 21), only about 20% to 25% of increased muscle growth stems from increased protein synthesis. The rest of the muscle growth is directly attributable to increased proliferation of the satellite cells in the basal lamina of muscle tissue, and dietary energy (calories) is not a key factor in the differentiation of these cells into new myofibres (muscle cells).
Of all factors determining muscle growth, prevention of protein breakdown (anti-catabolism) seems to be the most relevant, but adding adipose [fat] tissue through constant overfeeding can actually increase muscle pro- teolysis (breakdown). Furthermore, additional adipose mass can radically alter hormone balances which are responsible for controlling protein breakdown in muscle. Insulin balance, for one, which partially controls anti-catabolism in the body, is impaired by consistent overfeeding. So much for the eat-big-to-get-big philosophy!
Stay away from the super-high calorie diets unless you're a genetic freak, or you're woefully lean and don't mind putting on fat [or you're using appropriate pharmaceutical supplements].
3 -- If you eat a low-fat diet, it doesn't matter how many calories you take in, you won't gain any fat.
The bottom line is, if you exceed your energy requirements, you'll gradually get fatter and fatter. It's true that eating a diet rich in fat will pack on the pounds quicker for a variety of reasons, the most significant being that a gram of fat has nine calories as opposed to the four calories per gram that carbohydrates and proteins carry. Fat is also metabolized differently in the body. It takes a lesser amount of calories to assimilate the energy in ingested fat than it does to assimilate an equal (weight wise) amount of carbohydrates. Consequently, more fat calories get stored than carbohydrate calories. However, the gross intake of carbohydrates, as facilitated by many of the weight-gain powders, will make you fat very quickly.
4 -- The more you work out, the more you'll grow.
No, no no. This is one of the most damaging myths that ever reared its ugly head. 95% of the pros will tell you that the biggest bodybuilding mistake they ever made was to over-train--and this happened even when they were taking steroids. Imagine how easy it is for the natural athlete to overtrain! When you train your muscles too often for them to heal, the end-result is zero growth and perhaps even losses. Working out every day, if you're truly using the proper amount of intensity, will lead to gross overtraining. A body part, worked properly, ie. worked to complete, total muscular failure that recruited as many muscle fibers as physiologically possible, can take 5-10 days to heal.
To take it a step further, even working a different body part in the next few days might constitute overtraining. If you truly work your quads to absolute fiber-tearing failure, doing another power workout the next day that entails heavy bench-presses or deadlifts is going to, in all probability, inhibit gains. After a serious leg workout, your whole system mobilizes to heal and recover from the blow you've dealt it. How, then, can the body be expected to heal from an equally brutal workout the next day? It can't, at least not without using some drugs to help deal with the catabolic processes going on in your body [and even they're usually not enough .]
Learn to accept rest as a valuable part of your workout. You should probably spend as many days out of the gym as you do in it.
5 -- The longer you work out, the better.
It just isn't necessary to do 20-30 sets for a body part, or even 10 sets like many 'experts' would have you believe. In fact, research has shown that it's possible to completely fatigue a muscle in one set, provided that that set taxes a muscle completely, ie. incorporates as many muscle fibers as possible and takes them to the point of ischemic rigour where, rather than contract and relax, the muscle fibers freeze up, sort of like a microscopic version of rigor mortis. Any further contraction causes microscopic tearing. Hypertrophy is just one adaption to this kind of stress and it's naturally the kind most bodybuilders are interested in.
This kind of intensity can usually be achieved by doing drop or break-down sets where you rep out, lower the weight, and continue doing reps until you either can't do another rep or you've run out of weight. It can also be achieved by doing your maximum number of reps on a particular exercise: by a combination of will, tenacity, and short rest periods, you complete ten more reps. You achieve the short rest periods by locking out the weight-bearing joint in question without putting the weight down. In other words, completely surpass your normal pain and energy thresholds.
If you can truly work your muscle to the point described, it will afford you little, if any, benefit to do another set (Westcott, 1986). The exception would be the body parts that are so big that they have distinct geographical areas, like the back, which obviously has an upper, middle and lower part. The chest might also fall into this category, as it has a distinct upper and lower part, each with different insertion points.
6 -- You don't have to be strong to be big
For a variety of reasons, people, even those with an equal amount of muscle mass, vary in strength enormously. It might have something to do with fast-twitch/slow-twitch muscle ratios, or it might have something to do with the efficiency of nerve pathways or even limb length and the resultant torque. But it is still a relative term. To get bigger muscles, you have to lift heavier weight, and you, not the guy next door, have to become stronger -- stronger than you were. Increasing muscle strength in the natural athlete, except in a very few, rare instances, requires that the tension applied to muscle fibers be high. If the tension applied to muscle fibers are light, maximal growth will not occur (Lieber, 1992).
7 -- The training programmes that work best for pro bodybuilders are best for everyone.
You see it happen every day in gyms across the country. Some bodybuilding neophyte will walk up to a guy who looks like he's an escaped attraction from Jurassic Park and ask him how he trains. The biggest guy in the gym likely got that way from either taking a tremendous amount of drugs and/or by being genetically pre-dispositioned to get big. Follow a horse home and you'll find horse parents. The guy in your gym who is best bodybuilder is the guy who has made the most progress and done the most to his physique using natural techniques. He may still be a pencil neck, but he may have put on 40 pounds [19kg] of lean body mass to get where he is, and that, in all probability, took some know-how. That person probably doesn't overtrain, keeps his sets down to a minimum, and uses great form and concentration on the eccentric (negative) portion of each exercise repetition.
Many pros spend hours and hours doing innumerable sets--so many it would far surpass the average person's recuperative abilities. If average people followed the routines of average pro bodybuilders, they would, in effect, start to whittle down what muscle mass they did have or, at best, make only a tiny bit of progress after a couple of years.
8 -- You can't build muscle on a sub-maintenance calorie intake diet.
It may be a little harder, and it may require a little bit more know-how and a little bit more conscientious effort, but it can be done. The fact is, the obese state in humans and animals is not universally correlated with absolute levels of caloric intake and neither is the accrual of lean body mass. The ability to realize changes in lean/fat ratios is regulated by components of the automatic nervous system working in concert with several endocrine hormones; this is called nutrient partitioning. For example, certain beta-agonist drugs like Clenbuterol increase meat production in cattle over 30% while simultaneously diminishing bodyfat without increasing the amount or composition of their feed. Other drugs, including growth hormone, certain oestrogens, cortisol, ephedrine, and IGF-1 are all examples of re-partitioning agents. All increase oxygen consumption at the expense of fat storage--independent of energy intake!
Drugs are not the only way to do this, however. It's true that a significant component of this mechanism is genetically linked, but specific nutrients, in specific amounts, when combined with an effective training programme, can markedly improve the lean/fat ratio of adult humans. MET-Rx is one such nutrient re-partitioning agent, and several companies are trying to duplicate its successes [warning: one of the authors of this article has a significant financial stake in Substrate Technologies, the makers of MET-Rx].
9 -- You can't grow if you only work each body part once a week.
If you work out -- work out intensely-- then it can take 5-10 days for the muscles to heal. Although the following should be taken with a grain of salt when determining your own exercise frequency, a study in the May 1993 issue of the Journal of Physiology revealed it can take weeks for muscles to recuperate from an intense workout. The study involved a group of men and women who had worked their forearms to the max. All of the subjects said they were sore two days after exercising, and the soreness was gone by the seventh day, and the swelling was gone by the ninth day. After six weeks, the subjects had only gained back half the strength they had before the original exercise! By no means are we advocating that you wait two months between workouts, but we are trying to prove the point that it takes muscles longer to heal than what you might have previously thought. For some people, especially natural bodybuilders, waiting a week between body part workouts might be just what the doctor ordered for size and strength gains!
10 -- You can't make gains if. you only train with weights three days a week.
Although you probably couldn't find a single steroid-assisted athlete who trains only three days a week [well, I was, and I made fantastic gains!], there's absolutely no reason why a three-day-a-week routine couldn't work for many natural athletes. As long as your routine attacked the whole body and you worked to failure on each set, you could easily experience great gains on this sort of routine. However, you need to pay even more attention to your diet if you only train three days a week, especially if your job involves little or no physical activity, and you like to spend your idle time eating. Ignore those who say three-day-a-week bodybuilders are only 'recreational lifters'. Think quality and not quantity.
11 -- You should only rest 45 seconds in between sets.
That's true if you're trying to improve cardiovascular health or lose some bodyfat. But in order to build muscle, you need to allow enough time for the muscle to recuperate fully (ie. let the lactic acid buildup in your muscles dissipate and ATP levels build back up). In order to make muscles grow, you have to lift the heaviest weight possible, thereby allowing the maximum number of muscle fibers to be recruited. If the amount of weight you lift is being limited by the amount of lactic acid left over from the previous set, you're only testing your ability to battle the effects of lactic acid. In other words, you're trying to swim across a pool while wearing concrete overshoes. When training heavy, take [at least!] two and three minutes between your sets. Notice I said, "when training heavy." The truth is, you can't train heavy all the time. Periodization calls for cycling heavy workouts with less intense training sessions in an effort to keep the body from becoming overtrained. (See 'Periodization' by Brad Jeffreys on p. 85 of the Feb/March 1993 issue of MM2K)
12 -- You have to use fancy weightlifting equipment in order to make the best gains.
Futuristic-looking, complex machinery designed to give your muscles the 'ultimate workout' is typically less effective than good-old barbells and dumbbells. Using simple free weights (barbells and dumbbells) on basic multi-joint exercises, like the squat, bench press, shoulder press, and deadlift, is still the most effective means of resistance exercise ever invented. Scientific research has shown that many exercise machines lack the proper eccentric component of an exercise that's necessary to stimulate muscle tissue to remodel (grow). (See the article titled 'Research Confirms that Bodybuilders Should Pay Heavy Attention to Negative Reps' by Bill Phillips on p.18 of the Feb/March issue of MM2K)
13 -- Weight training makes you big; aerobic exercise cuts you up.
Manipulations in your nutrient intake are the main factor in getting cut up, and how you do it doesn't matter. If your daily caloric expenditure exceeds your daily caloric intake on a consistent basis, you will lose fat and get more cut.
Aerobic exercise is generally meant to improve cardiovascular efficiency, but if you do it long enough, you will burn up calories and in the long run drop the fat. However, weightlifting can do the same thing, only better. Studies have shown that the body burns far more efficiently if exercise is performed at a moderate pace for periods longer than 20 minutes. (It generally takes that long for the glucose in the bloodstream to be 'burned up', causing the body to dip into glycogen reserves for its energy) Once the glycogen reserves are used up, the body must metabolize fatty acids for energy. That equate to lost bodyfat.
In the long run, bodybuilding is more efficient than aerobics for burning up calories. Let me explain--if researchers were to undertake a study of twins whereby one twin performed daily aerobics and the other practiced a bodybuilding programme where the end result was increased lean body mass, the bodybuilding twin would ultimately be a more efficient fat burner than his aerobic twin. Why? Well, by adding lean body mass, that person's metabolic requirements are higher--muscle uses energy even while it is not being used. The aerobic twin might use more calories during the time period of exercise itself, but the weight-lifting twin would use a higher amount during rest time, leading to a higher net 24-hour expenditure. The weight lifter burns fat just sitting there.
14 -- You can completely reshape a muscle by doing isolation exercises.
You can't limit growth to only one area of a muscle. Larry Scott, for whom the 'biceps peaking' Scott curl was named, had tremendous biceps, but he didn't have much of a peak. The shape of your biceps, or for that matter, any muscle, is determined by your genetic makeup. When you work a muscle, any muscle, it works on the all-or-nothing principle, meaning that each muscle fiber recruited to do a lift -- along the entire length of that muscle -- is contracted fully. Why would a certain number of them, like the ones in the middle of the biceps, suddenly start to grow differently or at a faster rate than its partners? If anything, the muscles that are closest to the insertion points are the most prone to mechanical stress, and you don't see them get any bigger than the rest of the muscle. If they did, everyone would have proportions like Popeye.
This is true of any muscle, but you're probably thinking, what about quads? I know that when I do hack squats with my feet together, it tends to give me more sweep in my legs. Sure it does, but the quadriceps are made up of four different main muscles, and doing hacks with your feet together forces the vastus lateralis muscles on the outside of the leg to work harder; consequently, they grow proportionately along their entire length and give the outer quads more sweep.
As further evidence, take a look at a picture of any young professional bodybuilder before he was developed enough to become a pro. He will have virtually the same structural lines as he does today. All that has changed is that his muscles are now bigger.

[Remy Martin]

15 -- If you get a pump , you're working the muscles adequately to ensure muscular hypertrophy, or if your muscles are burning, that means you are promoting muscle growth.
A pump, despite what Arnold Schwarzenegger said about it "feeling better than coming", is nothing more than the muscle becoming engorged with blood from capillary action. It can be achieved easily by curling a soup can fifty times. It by no means equates to the muscular intensity needed to promote growth. The same is true of the coveted 'burn' that Hollywood muscleheads advise the public to 'go for'. A burn is simply an accumulation of lactic acid, a by-product of chemical respiration. You can get a burn by peddling a bicycle or simply extending your arm straight out and moving it in tiny circles [or sitting in a burning fireplace!]. It does not necessarily mean you are promoting muscle growth. For hypertrophy to occur, you have to subject the muscles to high levels of tension, and high tension levels are best induced by heavy weights.
16 -- If you do hundreds of sit-ups a day, you will eventually achieve a narrow, washboard-type midsection.
There is no such thing as spot-reduction. Doing thousands and thousands of sit-ups will give you tight abdominal muscles, but they will do nothing to rid your midsection of fat. Thigh adductor and abductor movements will give women's thighs more firmness, but they will do nothing to rid the area of fat, or what is commonly [and erroneously] called cellulite. Nothing will rid the body of fat, unless it is a carefully-orchestrated reduction in your daily energy intake; in other words, if you burn more calories than you ingest (or do that in conjunction with a nutrient partitioning agent. See #8)
17 -- Training like a powerlifter --deadlifts, heavy squats, bench presses--will make your physique look blocky.
Blockiness, like baldness or a flat chest, is a genetic trait. If you were born blocky, then powerlifting will simply make you a bigger blocky person. The only way to offset a blocky appearance is to give special emphasis to the lats, the outer muscles of the thighs, and to a fat-reducing diet which will keep the midsection as narrow as possible. With these modifications, you will give your body the illusion of a more "aerodynamic" appearance. The truth is, powerlifting exercises are excellent for bodybuilding.
18 -- High repetitions make your muscles harder and more cut up.
Although there is some evidence to suggest that high repetitions might induce some extra capillary intrusion into a muscle, they will do nothing to make the muscle harder or more cut up. If a completely sedentary person began weightlifting, using either low reps or high reps, he or she would experience a rapid increase in tonus, the degree of muscular contraction that the muscle maintains even when that muscle is relaxed, but that would happen regardless of rep range. The only way that high repetitions would make a muscle more cut up is if, by doing a higher number of reps, your body as a whole was in negative energy balance, and you were burning more calories than you were ingesting. The truth is, heavy weights, lifted for 5-8 reps per set, can build rock-hard muscles. You just have to get the fat off them to see how "hard" they are.
19 -- Instinctive training is the best way to promote gains.
If bodybuilders followed their instincts, they'd go home and pop open a Bud [much prefer Toohey's Red myself!]. Instinctive training is a wonderful catch-phrase, and it might even work for drug-assisted athletes since the very act of opening up a Bud would probably induce muscular growth in them. However, in a natural bodybuilder, the approach to long-term, consistent gains in muscular mass has to be, shall we say, a bit more scientific. Research results conducted by exercise physiologists recommend a systematic approach such as the one encompassed by periodization where the bodybuilder, through a period of several weeks, lifts ever-increasing pre-set percentages of a one-rep lift. This heavy period is also periodically staggered with a lighter training phase 'cycle'. Ultimately, the percentages increase, the maximum one-rep lifts increase, and lean body mass increases. There is nothing instinctive about it.
20 -- Women need to train differently than men.
On a microscopic level, there is virtually no difference between the muscle tissue of men and the muscle tissue of women. Men and women have different levels of the same hormones, and that's what is responsible for the difference in the amount of muscle a man can typically put on and the amount of muscle a woman can typically gain. There is absolutely no reason why either should train differently than the other sex, provided they have the same goals. The only difference in training might be as a result of cultural, sexual preferences. A woman might desire to develop her glutes a little more so she looks better in a pair of 'Guess' jeans. Conversely, a man might want to build his lats a little more so that he fits the cultural stereotype of a virile man.
21 -- There are food supplements available that are just as effective as steroids, yet safer.
The only things as effective as steroids are other steroids. Despite the proclamations of some supplement distributors, usually in giant, 35-point type, no currently available supplement works like steroids. However, nutrients and supplements can be extremely effective, especially if your diet is lacking in some critical component or you're genetically predisposed to accept that nutrient or supplement. Biochemically, individuals vary enormously, and the interaction of genetics, coupled with the widely varying diets that each of us eats, makes it virtually impossible to gauge just what will work for one individual and what won't. That is why some supplements work better than others for some people, just as some people are genetically predispositioned to accept steroids more readily than others. Food supplements do have benefits that can't be overlooked -- they're generally safe, and they won't get you thrown into jail. But none of them build muscle as fast or as well as steroids.
22 -- Professional bodybuilders represent the epitome of health and fitness.
The ultimate irony is that the IFBB is facing in trying to get bodybuilders into the Olympics is that while every athlete in every other sport is presumably the healthiest they've ever been so that they are able to compete athletically and break records, the bodybuilder is so weak on competition day that he or she would have trouble fending off the attacks of an enraged toy poodle. The weeks of constant dieting, workouts that continually tax the body almost beyond recovery, and a constant influx of potentially harmful drugs and diuretics have brought most of them to total exhaustion.
And think about the huge amounts of food some steroid-using bodybuilders eat. In all the longevity sites in the world where people routinely live to be one hundred, the only common denominator is that they all either under-eat or eat just enough to meet their daily caloric requirements. By ingesting less food, they ingest less harmful chemicals, and fewer free radicals are formed in the body. The average professional builder probably eats at least four or five times what these aforementioned people eat. As a result, bodybuilders often suffer from high cholesterol and high blood pressure. Plus, with all that extra mass, the heart has to work that much harder and will probably stop beating years before it was designed to. That's why professional bodybuilding is the ultimate act of vanity. It was done strictly to fulfill some misguided notion of the superhuman ideal, and health was not even a consideration. Almost without exception, these guys and gals are not healthy, and they'll probably be among the first to tell you so. However, weight-training and consuming a nutrient-rich diet is very healthy, as long as it is not carried to extremes.
23 -- Training with weights causes your muscles to get tight and hinders flexibility and, consequently, athletic performance.
If anything, when done properly (slowly and using a complete range of motion), weight training increases flexibility. Many athletes now engage in weight training in order to improve their performance in their chosen sport -- witness Evander Hollyfield or any number of track athletes, basketball players, or gymnasts; the list goes on and on.
This lie goes all the way back to the 1930s. Companies that were selling isometric exercise programmes by mail were trying to convince people _not_ to exercise with barbells, simply because it wasn't practical to send weights through the mail. So they made up the 'muscle-bound' lie.
This lie might have been fueled from the feeling of 'tightness' that accompanies an intense workout. If the workout was intense and a sufficient number of muscle fibers were recruited and microscopically damaged, then even the normal tonus (the normal amount of contraction experienced by a relaxed muscle) is more than enough to cause a feeling of pain and tightness. The tightness is compounded by the 'tugging' of the tendons on the muscles. Stretching, however, would do much to alleviate this tightness, and stretching is a recommended part of any athletic pursuit.
The only possible confirmation of this lie concerns a baseball pitcher's arm. An intense weight training programme might affect a pitcher's ability to throw a fast ball, but it wouldn't be because of a lack of flexibility. The speed a pitcher can generate seems to be determined more by a complex relationship of tendon length and strength and nervous system efficiency as opposed to muscular strength, and weight training could, possibly, upset this delicate balance.
24 -- Loading up on carbohydrates is an excellent way to enhance your athletic performance.
The traditional manner in which athletes 'carb up' for an athletic competition usually involves first depleting the body's stores of carbohydrates through exercise and diet. This is then followed by rest and a high carbohydrate intake. However, studies have shown that this type of preparation is unnecessary. An athlete who eats a balanced, high-carbohydrate diet and is in reasonably good shape has plenty of carbohydrates in his or her system to meet the demands of short-duration exercises that don't exceed roughly one hour. Anyone that does exercises that last more than an hour, like long-distance running or cycling, may benefit from 'carbing up', but the ability of muscles to use fat as a source of energy rather than carbohydrates in endurance events may be even more important to performance at that level.
25 -- Consuming foods high in sugar before training provides your body with extra energy to sustain workouts.
Simple sugars like sucrose don't need to be broken down by the body's enzymes to be used as energy like complex carbohydrates do. Therefore, they elicit a rapid release of insulin, the hormone that regulates blood-sugar levels. The trouble is, the sudden, rapid influx of sugar into the system causes the body to release insulin in what must be considered a haphazard method, ie. the amount released is usually more than what's needed to metabolise the sugar. Consequently, your blood sugar often temporarily drops to a point that is actually lower than it was _before_ you had the sugar, which might cause you to become more exhausted much earlier than it normally would. Your body is then forced to dip into its glycogen reserves in order to correct the imbalance.
To ensure that you have enough energy to complete a workout, eat nutrient- rich foods with low glycemic indices (those that elicit a smooth, steady stream of sugar into the bloodstream) like barley, lentils or beans.
26 -- All anabolic steroids are extremely toxic and dangerous.
Here's a good trivia question borrowed from Dan Duchaine's Underground Steroid Handbook [highly recommended]: if you lined up a bottle of Dianabol (a popular steroid), a bottle of Lasix (a diuretic used by heart patients and bodybuilders who want to 'cut up' for a competition), a bottle of Valium, a bottle of aspirin, and a bottle of Slow-K (a potassium supplement), which one, upon eating a 100 tablets, wouldn't kill you? Well, most likely the Dianabol. This isn't an endorsement of steroids; it's just an effective illustration of the stigma generally associated with all steroids: 'they'll give you brain tumors like Lyle Alzado . . . they'll cause your heart to enlarge and eventually give out [they cause spontaneous decapitation . .]'. Maybe, but all steroids are different. Some are more dangerous than others. Birth control pills are steroids. Testosterone patches have been used with great success to enhance the quality of life for elderly men. Some of the steroids that bodybuilders use are very mild, and the risk associated with them is virtually negligible. Still, there _are_ dangerous steroids, and that's all the more reason that athletes who choose to use them must be more knowledgeable about them. This is what Bill Phillips' Anabolic Reference Guide [_very_ highly- recommended] is all about -- education. Of course, the physical changes that steroids bring about might cause adverse psychological effects in the user, and that fact shouldn't be ignored.
27 -- If you stop working out, your muscle will turn into fat.
This is almost too preposterous to address. Muscle can no sooner turn to fat than gold can turn into lead. Muscle is made up of individual cells--living, 'breathing' cells that undergo all kinds of complex metabolic processes. Fat cells are simply storage packets of lipids. The possibility of one changing into another is akin to the bowling ball in your storage closet turning into your Aunt Edna. If you stop working out, if you stop applying resistance to your muscles on a consistent basis, they will simply adapt to the new condition. In other words, they'll shrink. If the degree of inactivity or immobilization is severe, the muscles will shrink faster than the surrounding skin, and a temporary condition of loose skin might be experienced, but that too would remedy itself with time.
28 -- Ingesting MCT . (medium-chain triglyceride) oils will give you tons of energy, but they won't make you fat.
MCTs first gained prominence for treating persons suffering from fat mal- absorption, pancreatic deficiency, or stomach or esophageal diseases. Researchers found that MCTs, because of their better solubility and motility, underwent a rapid hydrolysis by salivary, gastric, and pancreatic enzymes. Consequently, they were able to reach the liver and provide energy much more quickly than long-chain triglycerides (Guillot, et al., 1993). There was also some evidence that MCTs reduced lipid deposition in fat stores compared with that resulting from LCTs under identical energy intake conditions. However, this is no reason to believe that ingesting these oils in excess will not result in a positive energy balance which the body stores as fat. MCTs, like regular oils, like regular fats, have nine calories per gramme. Even though they are metabolized differently, using them in excessive amounts will add inches to your waistline.
29 -- If everyone took the same amount of steroids, everyone would look like a professional bodybuilder.
One of the ironies of steroid use is that some people are genetically 'gifted' in terms of steroid receptors. That means that they have a large number of receptor sites in the muscles with which a particular steroid can combine and exert its mass-building effects. The man or woman who won the last contest might very well have the most active steroid receptors rather than being the most dedicated, knowledgeable bodybuilder. On the other hand, some people might possess very few receptors for a particular steroid. That's why they experience very little, if any, growth on a particular steroid. Another factor that influences receptor affinity is age. The highest receptor affinity seems to occur in late teenage years. This is a generalization, but it seems to be true for a good number of people. Since there is a greater uptake in these individuals, they are often able to take lower dosages for longer periods of time and make better gains than older users. The truth is, two bodybuilders could take the same steroid stack, train and eat the same, and one could turn out to be in the Olympia, and the other might never even win a local contest. The difference in how people react to these drugs is incredible.
30 -- Someone with a well-built body must be knowledgeable about fitness and physique development.
Despite popular belief, just because some guy has 20" [51cm] arms or 30" [77cm] thighs, that does not automatically credential him as a bodybuilding expert. Unfortunately, in a society where looks count for so much, well-built lifters are often regarded as bodybuilding scientists. The unfortunate fact is, many well-built athletes, even pro bodybuilders, have no idea how they got where they are. Many of them are so genetically gifted and embellish their genetic potential even further by using tons of bodybuilding drugs that they actually succeed in spite of themselves. With few exceptions, elite bodybuilders are the last people in the world you want to turn to for bodybuilding advice if you're genetically average like 98% of us. You're more likely to find expert advice from someone who has 'walked a mile in your shoes'.
The above has been reprinted from the October/November edition of Muscle Media 2000.
For subscription information to this excellent publication, contact:
Muscle Media 2000
PO Box 277
Golden CO 80402
1-800-637-1572

[Chaos]

Muscle media used to be god tier before EAS hit it big with Creatine and they crossed over into "wellness" of the 40ish crowd and the Body by Life stuff. They were totally frank about drug use and discussion and writers included Charles Poliquin (sp?) and Dan Duchaine. Oh well the internet has become what MM2000 was except for better.......well anyway.

[MagnusMadness]

haha....one of the first threads on IronMagazine.

[TheIlluminati]

Chaos, Magnus, anyone else, what are your thoughts on those myths? For example, I noticed myth #2 seems to go against what I've learned in this thread regarding caloric intake and muscle gain.

[MagnusMadness]

Chaos, Magnus, anyone else, what are your thoughts on those myths? For example, I noticed myth #2 seems to go against what I've learned in this thread regarding caloric intake and muscle gain.

The more I learn about nutrition and physiology, the more I have to agree with that post. More isn't always better. I've been re-evaluating the way I do things in my diet and I'm about to start making some changes.

At most a person can add MAYBE 10lbs of LBM over the course of a year naturally. So whether you put on 30lbs in that year or put on 15, you are still only getting that 10lbs of LBM. The person who puts the least amount of fat on is better off in terms of general health as well as having a head start to a leaner physique come time to cut.

I myself put on way too much fat when I bulk...that is going to change.

[TheIlluminati]

^Interesting.

And well, damn-- eating large amounts to try and put on LBM (thinking that I was willing to take on the risk of extra fat) constitutes what I've been doing for ~8 months of the past year. Time for a change.

Do you still consider it to be pretty much impossible to put on muscle and cut fat simultaneously, short of when a person's first starting weight-training?

[HeaT]

alright, i have been looking over what you posted...

another question I have is there is no specific calf exercises, is this ok?

also for dips is it ok if i switch out dips for machine dips (where you sit down in chair)? i dont know if i will do this but i thought i would ask if i did want to...

i have picked version 3
Version 3.0 (first upper body day is only horizontal movements, second day is vertical movements)

Upper:
Bench Press
Bent Rows
Incline Press
Dumbell Rows
ACCESSORY:
BB curls/kickbacks Superset

Upper2:
Lat pulldowns
Push Press
CG lat pulls
Dips
ACCESSORY:
Seated Overhead tricep extensions/hammer curls Superset

-------------------------------

and for periodization

1) 3x8
2) 3x12
3) 3x5 (superset antagonistic muscle groups and the drop accessory work)
4) UNLOAD: 3x5 using weight from week 1
repeat

hows that look?

im outi

Roberth

[MagnusMadness]

in this particular case, the machine will be fine...it will allow you to vary the resistance enough for the different rep ranges....HOWEVER.

If you are strong enough to do 12 bw dips...you could just do weighted dips for the different rep ranges...I think that would be much more effective.

I'm glad you posted which and what not...cuz I want to make some changes now heh.

Week 1: 4x6-8 (still 3 sets of 8-12 reps of accessory work)
Week 2: 3x10-12 (still 3 sets for accessory work)
Week 3: 3x8 (supersetting antagonistic muscle groups, except KEEP the accessory work, otherwise you'd be done in like 22 minutes heh, you should be able to handle to volume.)
Week 4: Unload, 3x5 (using weights from week 2)


And about the calf exercises...you can throw in some calf raises at the end of your leg day....preferrably in some kind of apparatus that is standing upright and not seated.


^Interesting.

And well, damn-- eating large amounts to try and put on LBM (thinking that I was willing to take on the risk of extra fat) constitutes what I've been doing for ~8 months of the past year. Time for a change.

Do you still consider it to be pretty much impossible to put on muscle and cut fat simultaneously, short of when a person's first starting weight-training?


I've been talking to a certain specialist for a short while now who has a special insight on the subject of dieting for gains in LBM. The main thing she stresses is TONS of fiber. 6-10 cups of fibrous veggies a day. This in conjunction with other things can "condition" your gut to utilize more nutrients in the way you want. This conditioning process can take up to 9 months...but she thinks that, given all things are equal, a person can eat less than they think they would have to, and gain LBM at a very high rate...whilst losing fat possibly.

As for the normal person who isn't new to training....who knows. I'm just going to try and not get so fat this winter....my last cut was a bitch.

[Nematoad]

Hey, I've been lurking this thread for a while and there's a lot of good stuff in here. I've come to the realization that I have plateaued pretty badly. I want to try some different things to help me break out of this rut.

I've been doing a chest/tri, back/bi, leg/shoulder routine for a while. I was thinking of doing a push/pull routine, but I don't really know how to go about doing it.

Can someone ie. Magnus give me a program that I can do to gain some mass? Or if there was one already posted then can someone tell me what page it's on? Thanks.

[dial911]

Hi, I have updated my workout routine and been doing it for a little over a month now. All exercises are done with 45/40 pound dumbells, I'm 6'2" current weight is 195 pounds. What do ya think, any suggestions?

Mon - chest & back
Tues - biceps & triceps
Wed - shoulders
Thurs - chest & back
Fri - biceps & triceps

Week 1: RI 30 seconds, all exercises 4x8
Week 2: RI 120 seconds, 5x5
Week 3: RI 30 seconds, 3x12

Monday
Military Press
Single Arm Row
Chest Flies
Normal Flies

Tuesday
Hammer Curls
Normal Curls
Tricep Kickback
French Press

Wednesday
Shrugs
Upright Rows
Normal Flies
Front Raises

Thursday
Military Press
Single Arm Row
Chest Flies
Normal Flies

Friday
Hammer Curls
Normal Curls
Tricep Kickback
French Press

[denjin]

First of all, thanks for the giant post, Remy.

Second, they mention "negative" reps a lot. I'm assuming they mean, focus on the 'drop' in push-ups and the 'let down' of curling right? If yes, anyone have any comments?

[HeaT]

in this particular case, the machine will be fine...it will allow you to vary the resistance enough for the different rep ranges....HOWEVER.

If you are strong enough to do 12 bw dips...you could just do weighted dips for the different rep ranges...I think that would be much more effective.

I'm glad you posted which and what not...cuz I want to make some changes now heh.

Week 1: 4x6-8 (still 3 sets of 8-12 reps of accessory work)
Week 2: 3x10-12 (still 3 sets for accessory work)
Week 3: 3x8 (supersetting antagonistic muscle groups, except KEEP the accessory work, otherwise you'd be done in like 22 minutes heh, you should be able to handle to volume.)
Week 4: Unload, 3x5 (using weights from week 2)


And about the calf exercises...you can throw in some calf raises at the end of your leg day....preferrably in some kind of apparatus that is standing upright and not seated.



ya, the thing is i can do 12 dips, but i dont think i can do 12 dips every set, by the third set, that is why i asked, maybe i can combine the two lol...

im glad you switched up the periodization, cause i wasnt really feeling them...but i like the one you just wrote...

i should be starting this next week...

im outi

Roberth

ps...here is another question...so for that particular periodization you are expecting me to for the first week, go heavy, second week go light, 3 week medium, and last week unload? cause that is what i see what i look at that...i just want to make sure...cause other ones you had is like light, medium, heavy...

[Soldier Zero]

Good read Remy, makes me wonder about something now.

To bulk or not to bulk?

I'm trying to put on LBM, now easiest way would be bulking. My question is, how much fat would I put on that I'd later have to get rid of after my bulk? My BF right now isn't too high or too low, so it's decent.

[MagnusMadness]

Wow lots of questions....long post alert


ya, the thing is i can do 12 dips, but i dont think i can do 12 dips every set, by the third set, that is why i asked, maybe i can combine the two lol...

im glad you switched up the periodization, cause i wasnt really feeling them...but i like the one you just wrote...

i should be starting this next week...

im outi

Roberth

ps...here is another question...so for that particular periodization you are expecting me to for the first week, go heavy, second week go light, 3 week medium, and last week unload? cause that is what i see what i look at that...i just want to make sure...cause other ones you had is like light, medium, heavy...

On the days where you are doing less than 12 reps, do regular dips...you will be grinding out 12 rep sets before you know it. Whenever you feel comfortable doing so, add some weight. About the periodization...I wrote like 3 programs at once and tried to give examples of different periodization to use...once I saw it again, it was obvious it needed some changes, sorry.

Yes you are going relatively heavy the first week. This first week is when you will be the most fresh as the week prior you unloaded...over the next 3 weeks you will accumulate fatigue before you unload again. You can do ALL kinds of things with periodization. The example I gave you for alternating periodization is kinda biting gopro's program Power/RepRange/Shock. I tried to give some variety with the different choices of periodization too..that's why they are different.

Don't think in vague terms of light/medium/heavy or whatever...use a weight you can get for all the desired reps for each of your sets for that week...without having to do a bunch of forced reps or rest pause crap.


Good read Remy, makes me wonder about something now.

To bulk or not to bulk?

I'm trying to put on LBM, now easiest way would be bulking. My question is, how much fat would I put on that I'd later have to get rid of after my bulk? My BF right now isn't too high or too low, so it's decent.

Just watch your weight closely....if you are putting on weight too fast then cut back a little. If you aren't gaining weight at all or losing weight, you know it's time to bump up the calories.


First of all, thanks for the giant post, Remy.

Second, they mention "negative" reps a lot. I'm assuming they mean, focus on the 'drop' in push-ups and the 'let down' of curling right? If yes, anyone have any comments?


The "negative" or "eccentric" contraction is a contraction in which the muscle lengthens....i.e. It is an eccentric contraction in your chest and tri's when you lower the weight to your chest...

My opinion on the subject is to use eccentric contractions to control and guide the weight. I don't do super slow reps in an attempt to cause more micro trauma to my muscles...I lower the weight in a controlled/guided fashion, then I contract forcefully and explosively. Some programs might call for negatives and/or forced reps/cheat reps...I myself am not a big fan.


Hi, I have updated my workout routine and been doing it for a little over a month now. All exercises are done with 45/40 pound dumbells, I'm 6'2" current weight is 195 pounds. What do ya think, any suggestions?

Mon - chest & back
Tues - biceps & triceps
Wed - shoulders
Thurs - chest & back
Fri - biceps & triceps

Week 1: RI 30 seconds, all exercises 4x8
Week 2: RI 120 seconds, 5x5
Week 3: RI 30 seconds, 3x12

Monday
Military Press
Single Arm Row
Chest Flies
Normal Flies

Tuesday
Hammer Curls
Normal Curls
Tricep Kickback
French Press

Wednesday
Shrugs
Upright Rows
Normal Flies
Front Raises

Thursday
Military Press
Single Arm Row
Chest Flies
Normal Flies

Friday
Hammer Curls
Normal Curls
Tricep Kickback
French Press


I don't like this workout at all....arms are being used everyday and legs aren't used at all....not good.



Hey, I've been lurking this thread for a while and there's a lot of good stuff in here. I've come to the realization that I have plateaued pretty badly. I want to try some different things to help me break out of this rut.

I've been doing a chest/tri, back/bi, leg/shoulder routine for a while. I was thinking of doing a push/pull routine, but I don't really know how to go about doing it.

Can someone ie. Magnus give me a program that I can do to gain some mass? Or if there was one already posted then can someone tell me what page it's on? Thanks.

I am pooped out on program writing right now....on this thread alone I have written a full body routine, push/legs/pull...and 3 upper/lower splits and provided a few examples of periodization to work within...between those programs I'm sure you can find something that suits you fine....

[Jorant]

Do you still consider it to be pretty much impossible to put on muscle and cut fat simultaneously, short of when a person's first starting weight-training?

I would say you can, but lord knows it's tough.

[Soldier Zero]

It's not hard at all making a workout program after reading what Magnus posted up; people shouldn't even be concerned with making a program if there's 4 already ready available.

[denjin]

As further evidence, take a look at a picture of any young professional bodybuilder before he was developed enough to become a pro. He will have virtually the same structural lines as he does today. All that has changed is that his muscles are now bigger.

I figured if people skipped his giant post, they should read this.

Also...how depressing.

[BEEFCAKE]

can someone explain to me the exact purpose of testosterone boosters in the way of lifting?

thanks

[MagnusMadness]

can someone explain to me the exact purpose of testosterone boosters in the way of lifting?

thanks

testosterone boosters boost your testosterone levels...this will improve strength and aid in building LBM.

[BEEFCAKE]

thanks, any you reccomend off the top of your head?
keep in mind Im a full time college student/work full time too ;/

[Chaos]

Work out, eat and take creatine. Test boosters have negligible effects on college age people.

[Nematoad]

Ok. This might sound stupid.
If you're supposed to do 3x8 for an exercise, does that mean going for 3 sets at the same weight or does it mean staring at a high weight and decreasing each set since you'd be more tired?

[denjin]

Ok. This might sound stupid.
If you're supposed to do 3x8 for an exercise, does that mean going for 3 sets at the same weight or does it mean staring at a high weight and decreasing each set since you'd be more tired?

Hm, I've never actually questioned that before.

I think it means this:
Let's say you're curling 20 pounds.

Curl, curl, curl, curl, curl, curl, curl, curl.
Break (one minute?)
Curl, curl, curl, curl, curl, curl, curl, curl.
Break (one minute?)
Curl, curl, curl, curl, curl, curl, curl, curl.

The entire time using 20 pounds.

+++++++

I missed a good 20 or 40 pages of this thread so this may have been covered already.

I find that psyching myself up before a workout makes starting easier. (It's hard for me to even get started on some days, "Man, I'd rather watch tv.")

Also, between sets, instead of daydreaming or talking to someone, I try to use it to psych myself up for the next set. I intentionally make myself antsy to start the next set and find that it generally makes the set go easier.

For me, a giant part of working out is mental. It's mental when I have to finish that last rep, and it's mental when I have to keep the regiment going.

[matrix9280]

If the total gym is good enough for Chuck Norris and Wesley Snipes, it's good enough for me.

[Romie]

If the total gym is good enough for Chuck Norris and Wesley Snipes, it's good enough for me.

Until you realise you can bench more than 150lbs and end up snapping the wires.

[evilmuffinmanX]

i need some good hip,back,and neck streches

[MagnusMadness]

Ok. This might sound stupid.
If you're supposed to do 3x8 for an exercise, does that mean going for 3 sets at the same weight or does it mean staring at a high weight and decreasing each set since you'd be more tired?

Unless you have a shithead of a spotter who's lifting the weight for you, you should be able to complete ur sets yourself, give a rep or two. Example

First set I might choose a weight that I can pimp 10 times...but only do 8 reps. This should ensure that you can complete the desired number of reps for each set. If you are having to drop the weight once or twice to finish ur sets/reps you are overreaching.

[matrix9280]

Something that I always wondered was what do people in prison do to get so big. I doubt that they're using stylized workout plans from the internet. The meals don't exactly seem conducive to bodybuilding/weightlifting either. I guess they they can get steroids easily like they do other drugs but I don't know that for certain.

[Soldier Zero]

Something that I always wondered was what do people in prison do to get so big. I doubt that they're using stylized workout plans from the internet. The meals don't exactly seem conducive to bodybuilding/weightlifting either. I guess they they can get steroids easily like they do other drugs but I don't know that for certain.

Prison meals are like worth a dollar each; some are like 65 cents.

[matrix9280]

Sure that's cheap to the regular person but doesn't a prisoner make like 25 cents an hour?

I see your point though. It seems to me like if you just eat a lot and lift a lot you're gonna get big. You don't need all this fancy stuff unless you're trying to be a pro or something.

[denjin]

Until you realise you can bench more than 150lbs and end up snapping the wires.

Romie, do you have any Bowflex comments?

Does anyone here own a Bowflex?

[MagnusMadness]

Sure that's cheap to the regular person but doesn't a prisoner make like 25 cents an hour?

I see your point though. It seems to me like if you just eat a lot and lift a lot you're gonna get big. You don't need all this fancy stuff unless you're trying to be a pro or something.

They do steroids....further proof that people who use steroids can do ANYTHING and grow. I did.

I know people who have done steroids in prison...I was pretty suprised to learn how easy it was to get them in prison.


Newbs can do anything and grow. Overtraining and injury are the prime reasons a person might quit and both go hand in hand.

Everything works but nothing works forever.

If you were to check out what athletes do...(actually I'm checking out a place next week that trains athletes, I am very excited) They do all that fancy stuff.

If you can train like an athlete, why not?? You are stupid not to.

I also thinks it's funny when people scream "what works for me may not work for you"....yet they do the same mundane "chest n tri's/back n bi's" split.



Oh and bowflex's are an obscene waste of space and money.

[matrix9280]

Basically what i'm saying is that if you put too much pressure on yourself by having to have a perfect diet or spending hundreds of dollars on supplements the workout starts to seem like it's more trouble than it's worth. That's when people decide to quit.

I can see if the purpose of training like an athlete if you actually are one. Then you would have a reason to train for hours a day and such. But let's be honest. Most people are not going to be pros so actually there isn't really a reason to train like one.

I know lots of people that work out and for the most part eat whatever they want and are in good shape. Like I said if you're into sports and all that then yeah all the training is called for. But if you're just trying to get in shape and stay in shape it really isn't as complicated as people make it out to be. Thus no need for the fancy stuff.

[MagnusMadness]

Basically what i'm saying is that if you put too much pressure on yourself by having to have a perfect diet or spending hundreds of dollars on supplements the workout starts to seem like it's more trouble than it's worth. That's when people decide to quit.

I can see if the purpose of training like an athlete if you actually are one. Then you would have a reason to train for hours a day and such. But let's be honest. Most people are not going to be pros so actually there isn't really a reason to train like one.

I know lots of people that work out and for the most part eat whatever they want and are in good shape. Like I said if you're into sports and all that then yeah all the training is called for. But if you're just trying to get in shape and stay in shape it really isn't as complicated as people make it out to be. Thus no need for the fancy stuff.

The "fancy stuff" I was referring to was the actually training. You don't have to be an athlete to desire a balanced, well planned out program. I'm not talking about taking hundreds of dollars worth of supplements and training for hours. As far as resistance training is concerned, you should be training for an hour. Never have I prescribed any supplements or hours of training.

[Soldier Zero]

Magnus, you're quite knowledgeable on steroids. In class today, teacher gave us 15 mins to write about anabolic steroids for athletes. Now the question itself was pretty dumb since it was "Do you feel professionals using steroids is wrong?"

Have a website I could read up on about steroids or do you have some basic info that'd help? It doesn't have to be a whole bunch of stuff, I just want to make what I hand in better than what everyone else writes. :sweat:

[MagnusMadness]

Magnus, you're quite knowledgeable on steroids. In class today, teacher gave us 15 mins to write about anabolic steroids for athletes. Now the question itself was pretty dumb since it was "Do you feel professionals using steroids is wrong?"

Have a website I could read up on about steroids or do you have some basic info that'd help? It doesn't have to be a whole bunch of stuff, I just want to make what I hand in better than what everyone else writes. :sweat:

see, I learned about steroids from a lot of questions directed at the right people and random studies and medical journals posted in different places. I can give you a few points of view to help guide you a little perhaps...

*athletes are people....in general I don't think it's wrong for people to use steroids..but as far as athletes are concerned, why not?? here's my opinion:

-Does it taint the sport?? Make certain players too good?? FACT: Athletes use steroids, period...barry bonds and the other 2 players that have admitted to it aren't the only ones....if you think that you are stupid.

-Fact: There are 0 documented deaths that are DIRECTLY related to steroid abuse.

-Fact: Steroids were widely used in the mid 20th century to treat wasting diseases and is still widely prescribed today for a variety of reasons...

-Fact: When congressed moved to make steroids a schedule III controlled substance...the FDA, DEA and some other organization were all opposed.

-Fact: Our OWN GOVERNMENT performed a study on the side effects of steroid use and came up with acne and breast tenderness.....hmmm...noting that chances of long term health risks appears to be low.

[JuiceM0nkey]

Holy shit!!!:wow: :wow: I feel like a big pussy after watching these 3 girls do a 13 min circuit!! I dont think I would have lasted more then 6min honestly!

These 3 chicks are definitley freakin hardcore!! Much props to there work ethics:wow: :wow:

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/051204.wmv

[denjin]

First of all
DAMN!!!

Second of all
How's their form anyway? Some of it seems a little sketchy.

Magnus, have you worked with Bowflexes before?

[Soldier Zero]

see, I learned about steroids from a lot of questions directed at the right people and random studies and medical journals posted in different places. I can give you a few points of view to help guide you a little perhaps...

*athletes are people....in general I don't think it's wrong for people to use steroids..but as far as athletes are concerned, why not?? here's my opinion:

-Does it taint the sport?? Make certain players too good?? FACT: Athletes use steroids, period...barry bonds and the other 2 players that have admitted to it aren't the only ones....if you think that you are stupid.

-Fact: There are 0 documented deaths that are DIRECTLY related to steroid abuse.

-Fact: Steroids were widely used in the mid 20th century to treat wasting diseases and is still widely prescribed today for a variety of reasons...

-Fact: When congressed moved to make steroids a schedule III controlled substance...the FDA, DEA and some other organization were all opposed.

-Fact: Our OWN GOVERNMENT performed a study on the side effects of steroid use and came up with acne and breast tenderness.....hmmm...noting that chances of long term health risks appears to be low.

Thanks man, I remember what you said about roid rage and how it came about. What's this about testicles shrinking? That's probably one of the most frequent "facts" I hear when someone talks about steroids.


Magnus, have you worked with Bowflexes before?

In my opinion, almost everything a Bowflex can do, so can a pair of dumbbells and bench.


Holy shit!!!:wow: :wow: I feel like a big pussy after watching these 3 girls do a 13 min circuit!! I dont think I would have lasted more then 6min honestly!

These 3 chicks are definitley freakin hardcore!! Much props to there work ethics:wow: :wow:

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/051204.wmv

Those chicks are crazy, but that last one at the end was pushing herself way too much. She was about to lose her balance and fall flat on her ass.

[MagnusMadness]

First of all
DAMN!!!

Second of all
How's their form anyway? Some of it seems a little sketchy.

Magnus, have you worked with Bowflexes before?

Yes I have....I'm not a fan at all....one of the biggest downfalls to a bowflex is the fact that bending rods is what creates resistance. It seemed to me that resistance was greater the more the rod bends...so let's take a chest press as an example...at the bottom of the lift, when you are using your chest and shoulders the most...the resistance is the lightest...then once the weight is moving and tension shifts more towards the triceps in locking out...the tension is the greatest..

And IMO they work the stabilizers too hard. Never will you need that kind of stabilization and the weights you move on the bowflex will hardly carry over to free weights...Nothing will build muscle like free weights. Never has and never will.


Thanks man, I remember what you said about roid rage and how it came about. What's this about testicles shrinking? That's probably one of the most frequent "facts" I hear when someone talks about steroids.

The leydig cells (LAY-DIG) in the testes produce like 90-95% of a males testosterone...when you start injecting exogenous hormones, you interrupt this sensitive, natural process and the testes basically take a break...since they aren't doing any work, they atrophy....imagine breaking your arm and having it in a cast....it would be signicantly smaller and weaker when the cast was removed....but once you started using it again it would return to normal size and function....just like ur nuts.

And you are correct...it's ur testicles...not ur wang...


In my opinion, almost everything a Bowflex can do, so can a pair of dumbbells and bench.

You can do more....much more.

[Soldier Zero]

Thanks for all the info Magnus, appreciate it. :tup:

[HeaT]

Holy shit!!!:wow: :wow: I feel like a big pussy after watching these 3 girls do a 13 min circuit!! I dont think I would have lasted more then 6min honestly!

These 3 chicks are definitley freakin hardcore!! Much props to there work ethics:wow: :wow:

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/051204.wmv

.....................wow sir......that was amazing, i am inspired...i will try to do that, after a 2 months i can probably do that, but i have to find some rings somewhere...anyone know where i can get some...

it also looked like they were working out in a house...pretty cool...

im outi

Roberth

[MagnusMadness]

.....................wow sir......that was amazing, i am inspired...i will try to do that, after a 2 months i can probably do that, but i have to find some rings somewhere...anyone know where i can get some...

it also looked like they were working out in a house...pretty cool...

im outi

Roberth

It's really not a great workout...

[HeaT]

It's really not a great workout...


...no one said that was a great workout, just that i was amazed...

im outi

Roberth

[kz0060]

Alright so I've started to lift recently but I still got some newb questions on workin out.
What's generally the best # of reps and sets in order to gain strength? Not necessarily bulking up but just being able to lift more. If I gotta bulk up to do so though, then that's fine.
When lowering my arms in preacher curls, how bent or extended & straight should my arms be?
When I'm doin' shoulder shrugs, does it matter if I have my neck pointing up or should my head be tilting downwards?
Lastly what are the advantages/disadvantages of using dumbells over bars?

[Soldier Zero]

Alright so I've started to lift recently but I still got some newb questions on workin out.
What's generally the best # of reps and sets in order to gain strength? Not necessarily bulking up but just being able to lift more. If I gotta bulk up to do so though, then that's fine.
When lowering my arms in preacher curls, how bent or extended & straight should my arms be?
When I'm doin' shoulder shrugs, does it matter if I have my neck pointing up or should my head be tilting downwards?
Lastly what are the advantages/disadvantages of using dumbells over bars?

Not sure about reps, but I think the amount you want to be doing strength-wise depends on your weight.

I lower my arms all the ways just before they straighten out.

I kept my head straight when I did those.

Dumbbells are good, I like using them for my chest. The bar is minimum usage for me, I only use it with deadlifts, squats, and bench press.

[denjin]

Should I be stretching between sets?

[Soldier Zero]

Should I be stretching between sets?

Between? Not really or at least I haven't heard anything about it, but static stretching is good after a workout.

[denjin]

Hm. Yeah, I suspected as much. Thanks, Soldier.

[shinzaneiken]

What's generally the best # of reps and sets in order to gain strength? 3-5(sets)x3-6(reps).Thats for strength.But the lower the reps number ,the bigger the chance of injury.So if you wanna do deadlifts 3 sets of 4 reps you must be good technicaly.If you doing deadlifts for only 3 mounth then your lowest reps number must be 6-8, if you do deadlifts for 1 month than 2 sets 10-15 reps, and so on
ps. sorry for my bad english:wonder:

[Romie]

Should I be stretching between sets?

Don't even stretch before sets. As a matter of fact, don't stretch at all. If you're gonna lift, then do some warmup sets with light weights before your first exercise.

If you're gonna run, do some bodyweight squats and luinges.

Stretching is useless, and doesn't prevent injury. It just tires out your muscles beforehand.

[HeaT]

yo Magnus, on the version 3 of the workout i have selected, can i switch good mornings for stiff leg deadlifts? also, there is no shrugs anywhere...i started yesterday just as an fyi.

im outi

Roberth

[Chaos]

No need to shrug if you are deadlifting heavy.

[MagnusMadness]

Stretching is useless, and doesn't prevent injury. It just tires out your muscles beforehand.

Do you mean at all?? Or just before a workout?? There is a ton of data that supports static stretching in a lot of different scenarios.


yo Magnus, on the version 3 of the workout i have selected, can i switch good mornings for stiff leg deadlifts? also, there is no shrugs anywhere...i started yesterday just as an fyi.

im outi

Roberth


No need to shrug if you are deadlifting heavy.

My sentiments exactly...first time I deadlifted for reps, traps were sore as fuck. If you really feel it necessary to shrug, you can do a sort of hybrid deadlift where at the top of the movement you focus on scapular elevation and retraction. That should rock the shit out of ur traps.


3-5(sets)x3-6(reps).Thats for strength.But the lower the reps number ,the bigger the chance of injury.So if you wanna do deadlifts 3 sets of 4 reps you must be good technicaly.If you doing deadlifts for only 3 mounth then your lowest reps number must be 6-8, if you do deadlifts for 1 month than 2 sets 10-15 reps, and so on
ps. sorry for my bad english

I agree...but if your form is good and you are training for strength you just have to do lower reps....especially on exercises like deadlifts. This is where periodization plays a vital role in programming and also have weeks where you unload and perhaps even another week where you use submaximal weight. Just because you normally train at lower reps doesn't mean you have to train @90% of your 1RM. :wink:

Example....first week I wave load...I'm prolly gonna use sub max weight on this week...second week I do 4 sets of 4, leaving a little in the tank...next week 6 sets of 3 hammering the shit out of it....then I unload and repeat...that's just an example and I might/probably would do things differently, just throwin it out there.

[Remy Martin]

I will also testify to deadlifts being plenty of work for your traps...

[HeaT]

[QUOTE=MagnusMadness;3370043]

My sentiments exactly...first time I deadlifted for reps, traps were sore as fuck. If you really feel it necessary to shrug, you can do a sort of hybrid deadlift where at the top of the movement you focus on scapular elevation and retraction. That should rock the shit out of ur traps.


QUOTE]

so is it ok to switch good mornings with stiff leg deadlifts?


im outi

Roberth

[Reckless Fire]

I will also testify to deadlifts being plenty of work for your traps...

Does that mean I lift with my shoulders in a Deadlift?

[MagnusMadness]

[QUOTE=MagnusMadness;3370043]

My sentiments exactly...first time I deadlifted for reps, traps were sore as fuck. If you really feel it necessary to shrug, you can do a sort of hybrid deadlift where at the top of the movement you focus on scapular elevation and retraction. That should rock the shit out of ur traps.


QUOTE]

so is it ok to switch good mornings with stiff leg deadlifts?


im outi

Roberth

I think stiff legged deadlifts are better. I do good mornings in my current program but I am already doing SLDL's too...not only is it "safer" but it also can serve as a tool to work on ur traps as well as improve grip strength.

Good mornings are good, SLDL's are better IMHO.

I have a website that shows proper form for the SLDL's but I can't find the link right now, I think I have posted it before...I will find it and post it up later, sorry..


Does that mean I lift with my shoulders in a Deadlift?

I don't believe the actually deltoids get much work in a deadlift...the traps are another muscle completely responsible for scapular elevation, retraction, and depression

When I deadlift I keep my back straight and my shoulders up, by keeping your shoulders up/back while lifting something that is directly applying a tremendous downward force, they are getting quite a workout.

[denjin]

Don't even stretch before sets. As a matter of fact, don't stretch at all. If you're gonna lift, then do some warmup sets with light weights before your first exercise.


I remember not stretching before lifting *nod*.


If you're gonna run, do some bodyweight squats and luinges.


I thought stretching before running was supposed to be something you do?


It just tires out your muscles beforehand.

Cool, that's how I always felt.

[HeaT]

[QUOTE=HeaT;3370194]

I think stiff legged deadlifts are better. I do good mornings in my current program but I am already doing SLDL's too...not only is it "safer" but it also can serve as a tool to work on ur traps as well as improve grip strength.

Good mornings are good, SLDL's are better IMHO.

I have a website that shows proper form for the SLDL's but I can't find the link right now, I think I have posted it before...I will find it and post it up later, sorry..




cool that is why I wanted to change it, cause imo it is better and safer...didnt know if you had it in there for a specific reason...also I dont need that vid, i got the technique down...

im outi

Roberth

[MagnusMadness]

[QUOTE=MagnusMadness;3370495]


cool that is why I wanted to change it, cause imo it is better and safer...didnt know if you had it in there for a specific reason...also I dont need that vid, i got the technique down...

im outi

Roberth

I misunderstood you, I thought you were asking if you could do good mornings instead of stiff deads...I went back and looked at the program I wrote....

You do Romanian deads on the first lower body day...they are almost identical to stiff legged deadlifts...(provided ur version isn't the outdated, locked knees, rounded back version on exrx.net) The main difference between the two is with romanians you hold the weight further away from ur body when lowering the weight..whereas with stiff deads the weight should move downward very close to ur body. You can do either of those on ur first lower body day, but don't do them both days. Something you might want to try which I also want to use in a future program is a sumo leg press...Yeah that sounds good...try that. I think that would be great...cuz on my second lower body days I feel like I don't get enough work done with my quads (my hips are too powerful in comparison) So with that sumo leg press you can get quite a bit of hip and quad activation.

[HeaT]

[QUOTE=HeaT;3371331]

I misunderstood you, I thought you were asking if you could do good mornings instead of stiff deads...I went back and looked at the program I wrote....

You do Romanian deads on the first lower body day...they are almost identical to stiff legged deadlifts...(provided ur version isn't the outdated, locked knees, rounded back version on exrx.net) The main difference between the two is with romanians you hold the weight further away from ur body when lowering the weight..whereas with stiff deads the weight should move downward very close to ur body. You can do either of those on ur first lower body day, but don't do them both days. Something you might want to try which I also want to use in a future program is a sumo leg press...Yeah that sounds good...try that. I think that would be great...cuz on my second lower body days I feel like I don't get enough work done with my quads (my hips are too powerful in comparison) So with that sumo leg press you can get quite a bit of hip and quad activation.


hmmm, maybe i am confused...

well, what is the difference between a good morning and a stiff leg deadlift? to me it is just the placement of the bar, one is on your back the other is in your hands, you are still working hams and lower back...

to me they are basically the same exercise...so that is why i am asking if i can switch them out, but you are saying dont do them on the same day (stiff and romanian), but you have good mornings and romanian on same day wich is the same to me...

maybe i am thinking of a different exercise then you are for the term 'good mornings'...hopefully this gets resolved before the the second lower body day =].

im outi

Roberth

[MagnusMadness]

[QUOTE=MagnusMadness;3371821]


hmmm, maybe i am confused...

well, what is the difference between a good morning and a stiff leg deadlift? to me it is just the placement of the bar, one is on your back the other is in your hands, you are still working hams and lower back...

to me they are basically the same exercise...so that is why i am asking if i can switch them out, but you are saying dont do them on the same day (stiff and romanian), but you have good mornings and romanian on same day wich is the same to me...

maybe i am thinking of a different exercise then you are for the term 'good mornings'...hopefully this gets resolved before the the second lower body day =].

im outi

Roberth

Ok...on ur first lower body day you did..

Back Squats
Romanian Deads
Lunges.

The second day you do

Deadlifts
Front squats
good mornings...

You want to drop the good mornings for stiff deads, I say no because you are already doing stiff legged deads (pretty much, romanian deads are almost identical as I explained earlier)..

You say good mornings are basically the same and they work the same muscles so why not?? Well we are trying to do 2 completely different lower body days...as in not doing the same exercises 2 days out of the week...Yes they both work the same muscles, but hardly the same way. It's a completely different articulation. Squats and front squats work the same muscles...the only difference between the two is where the bar is...yet they are TOTALLY different. Get my drift??

Now it really is up to you. But instead of doing the same exercise on both days, I would like to see you good morning, or perhaps even better, sumo leg presses...(I'm tellin you they are good lol, as in they WILL be in my next program heh)

Oh and don't do conventional leg presses instead of sumo...there is a big difference and I'm not a real fan of the conventionals anymore....

<----leg pressed 1200+ before and it didn't mean shit. My face almost exploded though!! lol...and if you leg press deep, ur back comes off the pad and rounds...it's a sneaky bastard.

Hope this post cleared things up....sorry for the confusion.

[HeaT]

aight i got you know, it clarified it up...so what is a sumo leg press, describe it because i dont really like good mornings LOL so i am trying to avoid them =]...

im outi

Roberth

[MagnusMadness]

aight i got you know, it clarified it up...so what is a sumo leg press, describe it because i dont really like good mornings LOL so i am trying to avoid them =]...

im outi

Roberth



Real simple...feet placement is really wide, with toes pointed outward, maybe between 30 and 45 degrees...also place ur feet high enough to comfortably push off the middle/heel of ur foot...

[MagnusMadness]

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1268956

Good read on bulking and cutting....

[HeaT]

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1268956

Good read on bulking and cutting....



ya that was nice,

yo magnus, what do you recommend if i am not fully healed yet for the next upper or lower body in the second half of the week???

im outi

Roberth

[MagnusMadness]

ya that was nice,

yo magnus, what do you recommend if i am not fully healed yet for the next upper or lower body in the second half of the week???

im outi

Roberth


If you are referring to being sore, just work through it. Believe it or not, you will stop getting so sore after a week or so. Higher frequency routines have that benefit.

Tips for not getting so damned sore:

Don't do a bunch of forced reps, super slow reps, negatives...don't take every set to failure (that's bad for a number of reasons) and don't do a bunch of rest-pause stuff...those have their places in some programs, but with a higher frequency routine, we can do without all the micro trauma such techniques produce.

Stretching and foam rolling are great for sore/tight/sensitive spots.

[Soldier Zero]

and don't do a bunch of rest-pause stuff...those have their places in some programs

Wait, what do you mean? Rests in between sets or something else?

[HeaT]

If you are referring to being sore, just work through it. Believe it or not, you will stop getting so sore after a week or so. Higher frequency routines have that benefit.

Tips for not getting so damned sore:

Don't do a bunch of forced reps, super slow reps, negatives...don't take every set to failure (that's bad for a number of reasons) and don't do a bunch of rest-pause stuff...those have their places in some programs, but with a higher frequency routine, we can do without all the micro trauma such techniques produce.

Stretching and foam rolling are great for sore/tight/sensitive spots.


coo, so you are saying i should still workout even if i am sore???

ya i dont really do the things you mentioned, it is just when i switch up a routine or do another program, the first week or so, i tend to get sore...

im outi

Roberth

[Reckless Fire]

Hey what do you all think of that Sobe No Fear supplementary drink?

[MagnusMadness]

coo, so you are saying i should still workout even if i am sore???

ya i dont really do the things you mentioned, it is just when i switch up a routine or do another program, the first week or so, i tend to get sore...

im outi

Roberth

Yeah, go ahead and workout....if you are worried about it, then just take it easy...in fact, the first couple weeks on a new program (especially a periodized one) should be light and you should be hammering form and finding the weights you are going to use for each given exercise...(important when you start changing intensity) Since I write my own programs, the first couple weeks I have to play around and tweek it a little too...

Yeah, I still get madd sore sometimes, depending on what week I'm in, and it has yet to affect performance. I keep loading up the bar with more weight, sometimes even surprising myself.

Oh yeah, and don't forget to WRITE THINGS DOWN. I definitely want to hear ur progress. Don't expect anything magical, but my training partner and I improve weekly. I think he put 30 or 40lbs on his Stiff legged deadlift last month.


Wait, what do you mean? Rests in between sets or something else?

Rest pause is where you take longer between reps so you can do more. For instance you are doing squats...When I squat, I inhale....hold...exhale comin up...inhale...squat...exhale comin up. An example of rest pause would be inhale, squat, exhale..inhale, exhale, inhale, exhale, inhale, squat....get my drift?? U rest just a lil in the middle of the set when ur locked out at the top.

[Soldier Zero]

^Gotcha. :tup:

[HeaT]

ya, i am writing shizzle down, the first couple of weeks is definately experimantory always have to be, since you gotta see what weights you can push...

anyway, i thought it was always a bad a idea to workout when you are sore...

im outi

Roberth

[Nu.]

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1268956

Good read on bulking and cutting....

Great article! Nice find, thanks for this Magnus :tup:

[MagnusMadness]

anyway, i thought it was always a bad a idea to workout when you are sore...

im outi

Roberth

Given the circumstances it's fine. If you did 18 sets of chest on monday and wanted to hit chest again on thursday and u were still sore...then it becomes a bad idea lol.

I imagine I would be sore all week if/when I attempt full body routines.

[TheIlluminati]

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1268956

Good read on bulking and cutting....
Tremendous article, read the whole thing. Thanks again Magnus. Can you give me some thoughts on cutting bodyfat? I know you've said before that it's mostly a function of diet and not so much changing your training habits. What I'm wondering is, how would you structure your cardio when you were looking to cut bodyfat?

[denjin]

"Since you don't have to diet as hard in situation B, the risk of muscle loss is much lower than in situation A. In fact, because of the possibility of losing a significant amount of muscle during the cutting phase, you could very well end up with no muscle gain after a year of bulking and then cutting."

Intriguing. I guess the dogma-fighting has to happen on this site, too.

[denjin]

Does anyone have a pics of 5-20% body fat?

pic 1: This is 5%.
pic 2: This is 6%.

Something like that. I don't really understand the numbers.

[MagnusMadness]

Does anyone have a pics of 5-20% body fat?

pic 1: This is 5%.
pic 2: This is 6%.

Something like that. I don't really understand the numbers.

Those pictures of jorant and juicemonkey are around5-6 percent I think.

Ok if a person is 200lbs @10% bodyfat, they are carrying 20lbs of total body fat...get it??

around 10% is visible abs...

[Soldier Zero]

Yeah, Jorant and juicemonkey posted up some good pics.

I want to start lifting in the morning, before I have to go to school because when I get home some days, I'm just tired as hell.

So my question is, when I get up in the morning, should I lift before or after I eat breakfast? I know I should get post workout protein and nutrients, but I also wake up with a pretty hungry stomach.

[MagnusMadness]

Yeah, Jorant and juicemonkey posted up some good pics.

I want to start lifting in the morning, before I have to go to school because when I get home some days, I'm just tired as hell.

So my question is, when I get up in the morning, should I lift before or after I eat breakfast? I know I should get post workout protein and nutrients, but I also wake up with a pretty hungry stomach.

eat first thing in the morning, every morning....after you lift, get ur shake on...then eat again in an hour or 2.

[Soldier Zero]

eat first thing in the morning, every morning....after you lift, get ur shake on...then eat again in an hour or 2.

Cool, but now if I have a heavy breakfast, is it fine if I lift right after I'm done eating? or should I wait X amount of time before I lift?

[HeaT]

the illusion thing of looking bigger when you are cutting (getting smaller) is strange in that article...although take into consideration that first dude that he uses as an example is obviously on steriods, so you can probably actually get bigger while cutting under those circumstances...

first week is done, feels good, i did the sumo presses instead of good mornings...

im outi

Roberth

[Soldier Zero]

the illusion thing of looking bigger when you are cutting (getting smaller) is strange in that article...although take into consideration that first dude that he uses as an example is obviously on steriods, so you can probably actually get bigger while cutting under those circumstances...

first week is done, feels good, i did the sumo presses instead of good mornings...

im outi

Roberth

That 2nd to last guy dropped his BF% by a decent amount, but I'm not sure if I'd want to be like that. He's in good shape, but that seems way too skinny, well, for me anyways.

[MagnusMadness]

the illusion thing of looking bigger when you are cutting (getting smaller) is strange in that article...although take into consideration that first dude that he uses as an example is obviously on steriods, so you can probably actually get bigger while cutting under those circumstances...

first week is done, feels good, i did the sumo presses instead of good mornings...

im outi

Roberth

Yes the first guy is juicin for sure.

You may LOOK bigger AFTER you cut...WHEN you are shirtless lol. But in all reality...most of us won't look bigger, just better.

I have put on too much fat, time to cut...I will never dirty bulk again.

[denjin]

Those pictures of jorant and juicemonkey are around5-6 percent I think.

Ok if a person is 200lbs @10% bodyfat, they are carrying 20lbs of total body fat...get it??

around 10% is visible abs...

I don't remember the pics too well. But if I remember them correctly, then I'm glad that the article said "10% is easy" 'cause 5% must be a fuckin' chore.

I'd love to see pics up to 30% body fat. I want to gauge where I'm at. I'm pretty sure I'm under 30's, but I don't know where. And no, not even Superman could see my abs.

[denjin]

I've noticed a gentle rocking motion in myself and others when I'm curling. It's not the 'uppercut curl' though. Is this anything to worry about?

[MagnusMadness]

I've noticed a gentle rocking motion in myself and others when I'm curling. It's not the 'uppercut curl' though. Is this anything to worry about?

I wouldn't worry about it necessarily...but it does nothing for your biceps. You want to kill the biceps? Widen the stance and bend the knees, keep elbows down at ur sides and curl without any sway.

[denjin]

Cool. I do bend the knees. I try to bend my knees for everything, including military press. Should I be doing this?

How wide of a wide stance?

[MagnusMadness]

Cool. I do bend the knees. I try to bend my knees for everything, including military press. Should I be doing this?

How wide of a wide stance?

Shoulder width is fine....and yes bend the knees for everything really, it takes a ton of pressure off the spine.

[Remy Martin]

wow youre up late

[MagnusMadness]

wow youre up late

heh, ur up later....I went to fight night. SO many hott girls...but it was "eh" overall, I'll go back but not every week like I used to.

[2nd. To God]

WHOA! 19 year-old Kyle Gulledge sumo-deadlifts 830lbs!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aw9yhC9cqU

[JuiceM0nkey]

Originally Posted by MagnusMadness View Post
Muscle milk is a protein shake... and it's not a weight gainer. A serving is what? 350 cals? My protein shakes are closer to 900. You don't exactly have to a "buy" protein...Lots of people mix oats, whey protein (isolate or concentrate), a little dextrose...milk maybe...taylor the shakes to fit your needs.


Ha ha, NO. Muscle Milk is DIFFERENT from a straight up protein shake. Muscle milks are DESIGNED for gaining weight and putting on MUSCLE and REPAIRING your muscles after workouts. Protein shakes are for lean and cutting. While it may add on a little weight, it DOES NOT add the weight that muscle milks do. Muscle milks have more calories and grams of fat than protein shakes.


Why are you still posting here dip shit???:rofl: :rofl:

[Red-Impact]

I could not find the men's health thread, so please direct me there or answer my question, either way I don't care, so long as I get what I am looking for:lovin:

Anyways I need to get rid of all the bumps in my face...no pimples, just a bunch of blackheads and greese balls (? )...should I invest on any of those advertized treatmens, o is there a simpler way to get rid of this pest?

[coco_j]

Buy Zinc tablets and wash your face twice a day.

[Red-Impact]

Buy Zinc tablets and wash your face twice a day.

How should I wash my face? just with regular soap?

[Soldier Zero]

WHOA! 19 year-old Kyle Gulledge sumo-deadlifts 830lbs!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aw9yhC9cqU

Dude's big for only 19.

I ordered more protein powder this week and it came with a free sample of whey protein isolate. Now, what the hell do I do with this for only one serving?

[MagnusMadness]

Dude's big for only 19.

I ordered more protein powder this week and it came with a free sample of whey protein isolate. Now, what the hell do I do with this for only one serving?

Just try it and see if you like the taste I guess. Don't get so wrapped up in which protein to use. Just get a good big, inexpensive bag of whey protein. If you want to add some simple carbs to it...dextrose is uber cheap.

I would love to see a real scientific study that showed how different brands of protein affect growth (LBM) I bet the difference is non-existent...IMO whey protein is whey protein...

[denjin]

How should I wash my face? just with regular soap?

What's your diet look like?

[Soldier Zero]

I would love to see a real scientific study that showed how different brands of protein affect growth (LBM) I bet the difference is non-existent...IMO whey protein is whey protein...

Yeah man, I was flipping through a magazine today that talks about all the products the store sells and only real differences I noticed were amount of grams in protein, carbs, and fat.

[2nd. To God]

Originally Posted by MagnusMadness View Post
Muscle milk is a protein shake... and it's not a weight gainer. A serving is what? 350 cals? My protein shakes are closer to 900. You don't exactly have to a "buy" protein...Lots of people mix oats, whey protein (isolate or concentrate), a little dextrose...milk maybe...taylor the shakes to fit your needs.




Why are you still posting here dip shit???:rofl: :rofl:

'Cause I can, young "dip shit".

[MagnusMadness]

HEAT WHERE YOU AT??

How are the workouts goin bud?



Guys you will not fuckin believe this. I pulled a muscle in my lower back when I was training someone. I was showing him how to squat...and was showing him to control the eccentric phase of the lift and not to bounce at the bottom too much...so I was doin a little bouncing at the bottom, showing him this is not how to do it, and I felt somethin in my lower back.



It was 95lbs!!! LOL. I couldn't say SHIT to the client either....what am I supposed to say? "Ouch I just hurt myself"...nope..that would not inspire much confidence...I had to eat it!! Then of course I train two guys later in the day who are beasts...one is 330 and the other was 260...so my back is hurting and I'm having to lug around 80 and 90lb dumbells.....oooooooooooooohhhhhh

[HeaT]

HEAT WHERE YOU AT??

How are the workouts goin bud?


yao!!! they are going very well...finished first 2 weeks, starting monday i will be entering 3rd week...

i can actually pump out 10+ dips (i couldnt do it before because i would normally do them on chest day as last exercise so they would be exhausted and i would pump out much less reps)...so i will probably start adding weight...

so far so good, week 3 will be fun, super setting opposing muscle groups lol, nice...super setting back chest is hardcore, i used to throw that in sometimes, really tiring...

i am still keep track of numbers and weights so in a couple of months i will post up...

im outi

Roberth

[kainzero]

where can i buy maltodextrin?

i heard whey + gatorade powder made a good pre/during/post workout drink, any opinions? i'm kinda unsure because i don't know which flavor of whey would taste good with lemon-lime gatorade...

since my last post i've gained about 5 lbs. hurrah. but i'm always hungry nowadays.

[MagnusMadness]

yao!!! they are going very well...finished first 2 weeks, starting monday i will be entering 3rd week...

i can actually pump out 10+ dips (i couldnt do it before because i would normally do them on chest day as last exercise so they would be exhausted and i would pump out much less reps)...so i will probably start adding weight...

so far so good, week 3 will be fun, super setting opposing muscle groups lol, nice...super setting back chest is hardcore, i used to throw that in sometimes, really tiring...

i am still keep track of numbers and weights so in a couple of months i will post up...

im outi

Roberth


Cool man, see about the dips!!! You aren't fucking wasted in one area of ur body (I think triceps just get SMOKED on a normal chest/shoulder day) You should feel pretty good and tired and pumped all over. I'm adding weighted dips to my workout too...I think this will hurt my bench in the short term cuz I'm benching and doing heavy dips almost back to back...but in the long run I feel I'll have better "lock out" potential.


Week 3...prepare to be TIRED.

[Reckless Fire]

Hey Magnus I've been doing your workout plan:
to be done in this fashion...A/off/B/off/A/off/off...then the next week B/off/A/off/B/off/off....wash rinse repeat.

Day 1: (workout A)
Squats (quad dominant)
Bench Press (horizontal push)
Bent Rows (horizontal pull)
Stiff Legged or Romanian Deadlifts (hip/ham dominant)
Seated DB overhead press (vertical push)
Close Grip Lat Pulldowns (vertical pull)

Day2: (workout B)
Deadlifts (hip/ham dominant)
WideGrip Lat Pulldowns(vertical pull)
Standing BB Overhead Press (vertical push)
Lunges (quad dominant)
DB rows (horizontal pull)
Incline Press (not TOO steep, bout 30 degrees or so) (Horizontal Push


Since you are kinduva newb, I want you doing 12-15 rep sets the first couple weeks with this program....once you are CERTAIN that form is flawless and stabilizers are up to the challenge of heavier weights...periodize in this manner


Undulating:
Week 1: 3x12
Week 2: 5x5
Week 3: 4x8
Unload

Or

Linear: Accumulation
Week 1: 3x12
Week 2: 4x8
Week 3: 5x5
Unload. (UNLOAD): 2x15 light weights.

I've been doing it every day except Sat. and Sun. but anyway for unload how light of a weight do I use? And you didn't write how much to do for the Undulating.

Whenever I do a leg workout, squats/lunges, I start to feel sick, whats wrong with me?

[denjin]

Whenever I do a leg workout, squats/lunges, I start to feel sick, whats wrong with me?

Make sure you are eating and drinking enough.

Bad form causes pain in odd places, so this isn't a matter of form. It's probably due to the things you do or don't do outside of a gym.

[coco_j]

To Red-Impact:

Sorry was away n shit. I just use normal soap. On extremely oily days I sneak in a hot towelette as well. I normally wash the face when I wake up and before bed, with soap, and like I said a few times during the day with hot water when its extra bad The zinc tablets really do most of the work, and with lots of sleep they will work wonders. Will take a few weeks for them to kick in but you should notice a difference.
Good luck!

[MagnusMadness]

Hey Magnus I've been doing your workout plan:
to be done in this fashion...A/off/B/off/A/off/off...then the next week B/off/A/off/B/off/off....wash rinse repeat.

Day 1: (workout A)
Squats (quad dominant)
Bench Press (horizontal push)
Bent Rows (horizontal pull) drop this
Stiff Legged or Romanian Deadlifts (hip/ham dominant)
Seated DB overhead press (vertical push) drop this
Close Grip Lat Pulldowns (vertical pull)

Day2: (workout B)
Deadlifts (hip/ham dominant)
WideGrip Lat Pulldowns(vertical pull) Bent Rows here
Standing BB Overhead Press (vertical push)
Lunges (quad dominant)
DB rows (horizontal pull) drop this
Incline Press (not TOO steep, bout 30 degrees or so) (Horizontal Push) drop this


Since you are kinduva newb, I want you doing 12-15 rep sets the first couple weeks with this program....once you are CERTAIN that form is flawless and stabilizers are up to the challenge of heavier weights...periodize in this manner


Week1: 3x12
Week2: 4x8
Week3: (unload): 3x5 with weights from week2
Week4: 5x5


I've been doing it every day except Sat. and Sun. but anyway for unload how light of a weight do I use? And you didn't write how much to do for the Undulating.

Whenever I do a leg workout, squats/lunges, I start to feel sick, whats wrong with me?


Getting sick?? hmm made some changes to the workout for you, it just might be a little much just starting out...especially on the higher volume weeks...It takes someone else posting it up to see it lol....on the higher volume weeks u'd be doing 30 sets that's a little much. Getting nauseous is kinda normal, it can be heat, dehydration...not enough vitamins or minerals...too much pressure abdominally...etc. Arnold threw up after every leg workout...my new manager throws up ALL the time. LOL. I've almost thrown up a few times too.

I changed the periodization model slightly, now it's what I do.

Now you can throw in a couple isolation movements of ur choice if you like @ 3x8-10....depending on what you are concerned with on ur body...chest? Maybe some flies..arms? Maybe some bicep curls or overhead extensions.

[Reckless Fire]

Getting sick?? hmm made some changes to the workout for you, it just might be a little much just starting out...especially on the higher volume weeks...It takes someone else posting it up to see it lol....on the higher volume weeks u'd be doing 30 sets that's a little much. Getting nauseous is kinda normal, it can be heat, dehydration...not enough vitamins or minerals...too much pressure abdominally...etc. Arnold threw up after every leg workout...my new manager throws up ALL the time. LOL. I've almost thrown up a few times too.

I changed the periodization model slightly, now it's what I do.

Now you can throw in a couple isolation movements of ur choice if you like @ 3x8-10....depending on what you are concerned with on ur body...chest? Maybe some flies..arms? Maybe some bicep curls or overhead extensions.

I'm not really a beginner I've been working out for a while. Maybe I'll just build a resistance to the sickness? I take a morning vitamin and drink at the gym so it can't really be that. When should I change weight or how heavy of a weight should I use each different week? Like:
Week1: 3x12 (Heavy, medium, or easy?)
yeah, I was starting to add some chest isolation in there.

[MagnusMadness]

I'm not really a beginner I've been working out for a while. Maybe I'll just build a resistance to the sickness? I take a morning vitamin and drink at the gym so it can't really be that. When should I change weight or how heavy of a weight should I use each different week? Like:
Week1: 3x12 (Heavy, medium, or easy?)
yeah, I was starting to add some chest isolation in there.

With the changes I made to the program you have a little more flexibility to add in some isolation stuff....Really and truly...six compound movements in one day is a lot...I honestly don't know what I was thinking.

The weights change each week...only you know what weight you will be using...here's an idea though.

Week 1: 3x12 (15RM..or a weight that you can move 15 times....by the 3rd set you will struggle to get the last rep I promise.)
Week2: 4x8 (10RM)
Week3: 3x5 (10RM, this is ur light week)
Week4 5x5 (6-7RM, this will be the most intense week)

[thedude.com]

can any of you do indian cat scratch ?

a friend of mine introduced this to me , he told me that he had an army officer who can do 200 push ups with no prob , but getting all shagged down doing only 20 reps of indian cat stretches .

[MagnusMadness]

can any of you do indian cat scratch ?

a friend of mine introduced this to me , he told me that he had an army officer who can do 200 push ups with no prob , but getting all shagged down doing only 20 reps of indian cat stretches .

I don't know what those are...

I do remember going doing a bout of MMA training....and the warming up and stretching wore me out!!! lol. I really need to do more cardio...but I HATE cardio!!!

[thedude.com]

I don't know what those are...

I do remember going doing a bout of MMA training....and the warming up and stretching wore me out!!! lol. I really need to do more cardio...but I HATE cardio!!!

what's MMA training ?

oh well we got to envy on those martial artist , they got strength and speed . and their training are A KILLER . my friend told me the schedule and i was shocked .

[MagnusMadness]

MMA

Mixed Martial Arts

[thedude.com]

MMA

Mixed Martial Arts


initial = FTL

results = FTW !


i think i'm gonna try their style of warm up and training , i'm quite ready, but do research 1st . yeah my friend does karate =__=;;;

http://zenshin.multiply.com/ <-- him . he got large forearms O_O;; .

[Red-Impact]

What's your diet look like?

Right now I'm living with my grandma, so the food is extremely oily, but I reckon it's better than KFC and chinese.

On a regular day I eat some beef, rice, lettuce, beans, bologna sandwitches (bologna+bread and cheese)

Thing with me is I'm always hungry...I just eat for the hell of it. Right now I'm trying to control myself, but a couple of weeks back my diet was purely bases on candy, KFC, and chinese. Count these as "snacks"..that are big enough for dinner :rofl:

Btw tried washing my face, just with a hot towel..I've gotten better :tup:

[bill_rizer]

how good are partials? I read its good to do them on forearms, is it good to do on all muscles.

[Soldier Zero]

http://www.prosource.net/carbwatchers-lean-body/6458-1/1933/

Anyone ever use those types of products? My cousin gave me two packs of his, but I've never tried anything similar at all to those. They're basically meal replacements.

[Reckless Fire]

With the changes I made to the program you have a little more flexibility to add in some isolation stuff....Really and truly...six compound movements in one day is a lot...I honestly don't know what I was thinking.

The weights change each week...only you know what weight you will be using...here's an idea though.

Week 1: 3x12 (15RM..or a weight that you can move 15 times....by the 3rd set you will struggle to get the last rep I promise.)
Week2: 4x8 (10RM)
Week3: 3x5 (10RM, this is ur light week)
Week4 5x5 (6-7RM, this will be the most intense week)

what's RM?

[HeaT]

ok...seriously, this man is rediculous...i dont know what else to say...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSNvEpH2L1o&mode=related&search=

im outi

Roberth

[thedude.com]

ok...seriously, this man is rediculous...i dont know what else to say...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSNvEpH2L1o&mode=related&search=

im outi

Roberth

where can i get videos of frank sepe .

and not to forget Christine pompioni .

[thedude.com]

geez i really hate body building haters ... :arazz: . encounter any fucktards who talks alot about the bad and ugly thing on body builders ?

[JuiceM0nkey]

Wish me luck guys, I have my 1st competition tomorrow since I tore my chest and had surgury back in mid April.
Weighed at 178 today so by the time i cut my water I should be at the top of middle wt. (176 lbs) and much more dryer and ripped when I start carb loading tonight:wgrin:

Here a few pics of me this morning before breakfest, and yes I did just wake up..LOL

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3670040

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3670039

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3670038

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3670037

[PBalla]

im gonna have to post up my routine/diet for you guys and bodybuilding.com to analyze.

is it possible to get toned and in very nice shape only working a specific body part once per week? Meaning, I'm trying to go bi/back on Mon. tri/chest on Wed. and Shoulders/Legs on Fri.

In my mind it makes sense, but just wanted to know your thoughts

gl m0nkey!

[Soldier Zero]

Wish me luck guys, I have my 1st competition tomorrow since I tore my chest and had surgury back in mid April.
Weighed at 178 today so by the time i cut my water I should be at the top of middle wt. (176 lbs) and much more dryer and ripped when I start carb loading tonight:wgrin:

Here a few pics of me this morning before breakfest, and yes I did just wake up..LOL

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3670040

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3670039

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3670038

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3670037

Really good man especially with your injury happen. Try getting pics at the show. :tup:

[MagnusMadness]

ok...seriously, this man is rediculous...i dont know what else to say...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSNvEpH2L1o&mode=related&search=

im outi

Roberth

I've heard he uses fake weights in his vids....and I don't doubt it. I saw him "deadlift" 800lbs for an easy double....gimme a break. He is one of, if not, the best at what he does....but what he does is bodybuild....not powerlift.

[HeaT]

I've heard he uses fake weights in his vids....and I don't doubt it. I saw him "deadlift" 800lbs for an easy double....gimme a break. He is one of, if not, the best at what he does....but what he does is bodybuild....not powerlift.

fake weights? are you joking? lol, who told you that shit? why would you go to the trouble to develop fake weights to looks like you are lifting a lot when you are a bodybuilder and your goal isnt even to lift a lot...

about the 800lb dead lift you saw that 18 year old do more than that...for 1, im sure ronnie can pump out more than that dude...

that is funny though, i laughed...fake weights? that is the first time i have even heard of that concept...

anyway the video was mainly for how big he is...like wtf, that isnt even how big he is now...rediculous shit...

im outi

Roberth

[MagnusMadness]

fake weights? are you joking? lol, who told you that shit? why would you go to the trouble to develop fake weights to looks like you are lifting a lot when you are a bodybuilder and your goal isnt even to lift a lot...

about the 800lb dead lift you saw that 18 year old do more than that...for 1, im sure ronnie can pump out more than that dude...

that is funny though, i laughed...fake weights? that is the first time i have even heard of that concept...

anyway the video was mainly for how big he is...like wtf, that isnt even how big he is now...rediculous shit...

im outi

Roberth


That's the word man, I'm just passin it along. It's really not even that uncommon. And the point of the video is to show how "strong" he is....but he also uses a squat suit in one video and goes for a double on a squat..Why does a bodybuilder need a squat suit?? Why is he uses maximal weight?? It's somethin to think about...

U know the world record deadlift is just over 900 right??

[Chaos]

Its real weight, but you have to understand the difference between 10 pounds at that level is exponential not linear. Men in those world class strength levels go up a few pounds a year in their lifts so 800 is a longgggggggggg way from 900 pounds. Secondly while Ronnie has lifts that in general are respected in the community fake plates are the rule, not the exception. If you haven't heard of the use of fake weights then thats laughable, not the concept of using them. You know those photo shoots you see in flex magazine. 99% of them are shot with fake plates added on for several reasons.

1. Bodybuilding, and particularly at those levels where muscle mass is gained at the expense of life in general and health is a narcicisstic endeavor. Therefor these guys want you to think they lift much more than they do.

2. Once the bar has been set, IE a shoot with XXXXXX incline benching 405 for reps, no one wants to look like a pussy and be shot lifting 315.

3. All these pictures are taken of lifters who are approaching contest condition, a window of 5 weeks pre and maybe 3 weeks post contest so they look like what we associate bodybuilders looking like. Henceforth their strength levels are down a good deal from what they are in postseason form.

4. Everyone knows there fake and its not even a tightly kept secret.

Wanna see what happens when guys go balls out lifting for a photo shoot? See if you can find the shots of Jean Pierre Fux where he was squatting 600+ and snapped his leg in half, ending his career while shooting for Flex. Lesson learned.

And finally why does Ronnie use maximal weight? The answer is that it has built him a 8 time Olympia winning physique, so who can question it? For him HEAVY resistance training works, this man has the best back in the history of bodybuilding remember. And he is old school, he goes to war with the weights. Its not suprising he rips off near maxes for videos, thats what the people pay to see. Would anyone pay to see him do 3 sets of 12 squats with 500 lbs? Probably not.

[HeaT]

Its real weight, but you have to understand the difference between 10 pounds at that level is exponential not linear. Men in those world class strength levels go up a few pounds a year in their lifts so 800 is a longgggggggggg way from 900 pounds. Secondly while Ronnie has lifts that in general are respected in the community fake plates are the rule, not the exception. If you haven't heard of the use of fake weights then thats laughable, not the concept of using them. You know those photo shoots you see in flex magazine. 99% of them are shot with fake plates added on for several reasons.

1. Bodybuilding, and particularly at those levels where muscle mass is gained at the expense of life in general and health is a narcicisstic endeavor. Therefor these guys want you to think they lift much more than they do.

2. Once the bar has been set, IE a shoot with XXXXXX incline benching 405 for reps, no one wants to look like a pussy and be shot lifting 315.

3. All these pictures are taken of lifters who are approaching contest condition, a window of 5 weeks pre and maybe 3 weeks post contest so they look like what we associate bodybuilders looking like. Henceforth their strength levels are down a good deal from what they are in postseason form.

4. Everyone knows there fake and its not even a tightly kept secret.

Wanna see what happens when guys go balls out lifting for a photo shoot? See if you can find the shots of Jean Pierre Fux where he was squatting 600+ and snapped his leg in half, ending his career while shooting for Flex. Lesson learned.

And finally why does Ronnie use maximal weight? The answer is that it has built him a 8 time Olympia winning physique, so who can question it? For him HEAVY resistance training works, this man has the best back in the history of bodybuilding remember. And he is old school, he goes to war with the weights. Its not suprising he rips off near maxes for videos, thats what the people pay to see. Would anyone pay to see him do 3 sets of 12 squats with 500 lbs? Probably not.

3 sets of 12 squats with 500lbs is outrageous, i dont see why anyone wouldnt be impressed by that...

but i dont understand wtf you guys are talking about, fake weights...i have seen in real life...in my fucking gym...some dude that was obviously competition material prolly 190lbs 4% bodyfat, do 10 reps for incline...INCLINE dumbbell flies using 100lbs, moving it like it was fucking paper, like fool didnt even break a sweat, or breath hard or anything, like a fucking warm up to a warm up set... maximum control...and unless he brought some fake ass weights in his bag and snuck them on the rack, then that shit was legit...and this fool wasnt even close to being ronnies size...

and like columbo, would fucking rep 800lb deadlifts...but maybe they had fake weights back in the day too...

i mean i guess they can use fake weights but i have seen with my own eyes that it is not even close to necessary to use fake plates, even for "safety" purposes...

im outi

Roberth

[MagnusMadness]

3 sets of 12 squats with 500lbs is outrageous, i dont see why anyone wouldnt be impressed by that...

but i dont understand wtf you guys are talking about, fake weights...i have seen in real life...in my fucking gym...some dude that was obviously competition material prolly 190lbs 4% bodyfat, do 10 reps for incline...INCLINE dumbbell flies using 100lbs, moving it like it was fucking paper, like fool didnt even break a sweat, or breath hard or anything, like a fucking warm up to a warm up set... maximum control...and unless he brought some fake ass weights in his bag and snuck them on the rack, then that shit was legit...and this fool wasnt even close to being ronnies size...

and like columbo, would fucking rep 800lb deadlifts...but maybe they had fake weights back in the day too...

i mean i guess they can use fake weights but i have seen with my own eyes that it is not even close to necessary to use fake plates, even for "safety" purposes...

im outi

Roberth

They don't train with fake weights...just use them for videos and photo shoots as chaos said.


Its real weight, but you have to understand the difference between 10 pounds at that level is exponential not linear. Men in those world class strength levels go up a few pounds a year in their lifts so 800 is a longgggggggggg way from 900 pounds.

eh, I would still consider it linear as 10lbs is 10lbs and an X% increase in strength will net them X more lbs., although I do understand the notion that gains in strength are harder to come by later. But I said the world record is just over 900lbs. I think 937 now? So 800lbs still puts him even or better with pro powerlifters, as a bodybuilder...so it's still ridiculous. **he did it twice and made it look easy, come on**


And finally why does Ronnie use maximal weight? The answer is that it has built him a 8 time Olympia winning physique, so who can question it? For him HEAVY resistance training works, this man has the best back in the history of bodybuilding remember.

You "sorta" missed my point on the coleman video. He uses a squat suit (why would a bodybuilder need one?) and does a 2 rep set...How often do bodybuilders do 2 rep sets?? And that was prolly a 3 rep max...that's just too heavy for a bodybuilder to be lifting, it's silly. There is no way I believe that he trains like that normally. He does higher reps, tons of isolation bullshit and injects HGH and Test, while eating a whole chicken between every set.....that's how he built his physique. You and I BOTH know that his training is probably SERIOUSLY lacking scientifically. Please don't put bodybuilders on a pedestal. They were born genetic freaks and further it with more drugs than any of us put together could afford.


Its not suprising he rips off near maxes for videos, thats what the people pay to see. Would anyone pay to see him do 3 sets of 12 squats with 500 lbs? Probably not.

THAT is my point!! lol. He put on the squat suit and used his 3RM just for show right?? Why not fake weights to further it?? Although with the leverage he's got with that size and a suit (had he learned how to use it) The squat isn't toooo outlandish.

I hate bodybuilding now. I've met too many guys that don't know shit that will ALWAYS be bigger than me lol. But I will be stronger one day...it's sorta my new goal....when I change splits I'm changing biometers and loading parameters. Very excited. It's going to be a bitch writing the workout though lol...

[HeaT]

ohhh i thought you guys meant that they cant really push that weight and they just use fake weights to make it look like they can lol...didnt know you were just saying in the video...

oh i actually linked the wrong video, i meant to link this on...lol...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaBVZQUX4-w

sick stuff...

im outi

Roberth

[JuiceM0nkey]

Really good man especially with your injury happen. Try getting pics at the show. :tup:

Got 1st place in the mens open middle weight class and ended up with second for the overall. There were 10 guys in my class. Made weight at exactly 176 lbs which is the top end of middle weight (154lbs - 176lbs) Let me know what you guys think I need to improve on for my next BIGGER show in 2 weeks!!!
Ohh yea, I'm the only asian guy at the comp in case you guys dont know...LOL

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706645

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706646

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706647

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706648

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706648

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706649

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706650

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706651

[Chaos]

Congrats! Your holding some water there but I assume you were really shooting for the 2 week out contest so you thats the cause. Your a little smooth but no more so than the other guys look. Triceps are getting dominated by bi's in the arms, also in the front double you could try and spread the lats a little more to emphasize your width, which was well ahead of the competition. Don't like the foot placement on teh back double. Calves really helped you here as the other competitors have none. Would like to see ab/thigh and side chest. I like the package and think if you come in at 170-172ish in two weeks by dropping that subcutaneous water you'll look great.

[MagnusMadness]

Got 1st place in the mens open middle weight class and ended up with second for the overall. There were 10 guys in my class. Made weight at exactly 176 lbs which is the top end of middle weight (154lbs - 176lbs) Let me know what you guys think I need to improve on for my next BIGGER show in 2 weeks!!!
Ohh yea, I'm the only asian guy at the comp in case you guys dont know...LOL

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706645

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706646

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706647

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706648

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706648

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706649

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706650

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706651

Wow, you look way better than all of them. There was one guy, standing next to you in the first pic....he looked like shit....like no muscle at all and still kinda smooth.

I will say that ur torso looks big for ur legs. The one guy with the curly hair and the tattoes had a nice set of wheels, he looked like ur biggest competition.

[Chaos]

They don't train with fake weights...just use them for videos and photo shoots as chaos said.



eh, I would still consider it linear as 10lbs is 10lbs and an X% increase in strength will net them X more lbs., although I do understand the notion that gains in strength are harder to come by later. But I said the world record is just over 900lbs. I think 937 now? So 800lbs still puts him even or better with pro powerlifters, as a bodybuilder...so it's still ridiculous. **he did it twice and made it look easy, come on**



You "sorta" missed my point on the coleman video. He uses a squat suit (why would a bodybuilder need one?) and does a 2 rep set...How often do bodybuilders do 2 rep sets?? And that was prolly a 3 rep max...that's just too heavy for a bodybuilder to be lifting, it's silly. There is no way I believe that he trains like that normally. He does higher reps, tons of isolation bullshit and injects HGH and Test, while eating a whole chicken between every set.....that's how he built his physique. You and I BOTH know that his training is probably SERIOUSLY lacking scientifically. Please don't put bodybuilders on a pedestal. They were born genetic freaks and further it with more drugs than any of us put together could afford.



THAT is my point!! lol. He put on the squat suit and used his 3RM just for show right?? Why not fake weights to further it?? Although with the leverage he's got with that size and a suit (had he learned how to use it) The squat isn't toooo outlandish.

I hate <a class=l href=http://webmaxsearch.com?qq=bodybuilding onmouseover="return (window.status='bodybuilding');" onmouseout="window.status='';">bodybuilding</a> now. I've met too many guys that don't know shit that will ALWAYS be bigger than me lol. But I will be stronger one day...it's sorta my new goal....when I change splits I'm changing biometers and loading parameters. Very excited. It's going to be a bitch writing the workout though lol...


I meant that he is 40 years old and has been juicing and lifting heavy for 20 years, so 10 pounds is an enormous increase for him, much less 100. The exponential versus linear arguement is basically about the increases once you reach potential threshholds versus when your working up to them not literally. Also there are 1200 lb squats out there suited in fact there is a 1005 squat at 198 lbs. I think out there. So 800 for two isn't shocking. Well it is but not relatively considering he probably weighs 310 in that video.

As far as his training goes Ronnie started out powerlifting and he still does relatively low rep sets (5 reppers) reputedly pretty commonly. He certainly does not suit up and go for doubles on a regular basis though, he is 40 and a muscle tear ends his career. In fact it did at the Olympia he lost, he has torn a lat and it kills his back. As far as how he trains I don't know how accurately a video represents his training schedule. Certainly the splits he uses aren't what is generally considered optimal on a scientific basis.

HOWEVER what you have to consider is that optimal strength training, even optimal powerbuilding lifting is not = to the best split for a heavily using competitor. Basically look at it this way I know that Ronnie hits body parts twice weekly in his routine, but saying that how he does it isn't the best way is hard to tell due to his extreme levels of genes, drugs and experience.

Finally you have to avoid that trap you talk about in your last paragraph or it will drive you nuts in the gym. You can't compare yourselves to others in terms of mass or strength or your always gonna be unhappy with the results unless your one of the 10,00,000 to 1 cats. I say all this to say you gotta put the emphasis on motivation from within, not without. Try to be more than you are now, constantly improving and setting ne boundaries! Otherwise there is always someone who is bigger and stronger, and chances are they know less about lifting that you they just have gifts. And the annoyance doubles if you know them and they condescende your knowledge as bullshit because they are bigger.

[MagnusMadness]

snip.

I was talking about his 800lb deadlift....oops...the squat, especially suited, isn't THAT outlandish as I said...but an 800lb deadlift for a bodybuilder is way up there.

I see what you're saying, but I am much better suited to get strong and bodybuilding is really just not my thing anymore. I would rather do a PL meet now, but I have a long way to go in that respect too...and I need to lose a few pounds.

[Chaos]

Weight class makes a big difference in that respect. If your not comfortable in a combined meet start by doing a deadlift only meet to get your feet wet maybe. That would be your best lift and a chance to see how you like it.

[Soldier Zero]

Got 1st place in the mens open middle weight class and ended up with second for the overall. There were 10 guys in my class. Made weight at exactly 176 lbs which is the top end of middle weight (154lbs - 176lbs) Let me know what you guys think I need to improve on for my next BIGGER show in 2 weeks!!!
Ohh yea, I'm the only asian guy at the comp in case you guys dont know...LOL

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706645

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706646

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706647

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706648

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706648

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706649

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706650

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3706651

Nice job man, most of those dudes look small compared to you, one dude doesn't even look like he has lats.

lol at the 4th pic, everyone's flexing hard and you're the only one smiling.

[denjin]

what's MMA training ?


Heavy on the cardio I assume?

Anyone know?

[$|-|U(V)AYeL]

Before: 167 lbs. w/ 16% body fat
Now: 162 w/ 10.5% bodyfat

Duration: 5 weeks

Sup y'all? This is specifically towards MAGNUS, but others are welcome to read. How you been? I've been following your routine for about 5 weeks now, i'm just starting the 6th week. I've lost about 10 lbs. of fat and gained about 5 lbs of muscle. :D Been eating most of my carbs in morning and after a work out, taking creatine, just ran out of whey :( but i think i'll be fine w/o whey considering i'm eating a decent amount of protein. Either way, questions are as follows:

Difference between the Squat you posted on Day 1, and front/hack squat on day 3?

How do you DB rows?

Critique: That's it mostly. I've been changing my rep tempo every week as follows, (repsxsets) 8x3, 12x4, 5x5. It's been 5 weeks since i've been doing this, should i stick with it or change it up soon to linear? I thought it'd be best to start off this way 'cause then I stimulate each of the different type of muscle fibers. Any other additions to the work out you gave me?

I've just started doing weighted ab work outs with weighted hanging leg raise, and medicine ball crunches on a stability ball. :D

I've been doing a little bit of cardio in between the 3 day full body work out, but i'm going to add 3x a week of interval training.

[MagnusMadness]

Before: 167 lbs. w/ 16% body fat
Now: 162 w/ 10.5% bodyfat

Duration: 5 weeks

Sup y'all? This is specifically towards MAGNUS, but others are welcome to read. How you been? I've been following your routine for about 5 weeks now, i'm just starting the 6th week. I've lost about 10 lbs. of fat and gained about 5 lbs of muscle. :D Been eating most of my carbs in morning and after a work out, taking creatine, just ran out of whey :( but i think i'll be fine w/o whey considering i'm eating a decent amount of protein. Either way, questions are as follows:

Difference between the Squat you posted on Day 1, and front/hack squat on day 3?

How do you DB rows?

Critique: That's it mostly. I've been changing my rep tempo every week as follows, (repsxsets) 8x3, 12x4, 5x5. It's been 5 weeks since i've been doing this, should i stick with it or change it up soon to linear? I thought it'd be best to start off this way 'cause then I stimulate each of the different type of muscle fibers. Any other additions to the work out you gave me?

I've just started doing weighted ab work outs with weighted hanging leg raise, and medicine ball crunches on a stability ball. :D

I've been doing a little bit of cardio in between the 3 day full body work out, but i'm going to add 3x a week of interval training.


WOW, that's awesome!!! That is some bad ass progress!!! fucking HELL YA!! I wrote that motha fuckin workout!! FUCKING A!! You better tell EVERYBODY about me!! LOL.


Really and truly, it would be better if you could ask someone at the gym to show you those two exercises....but let's see

http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/DBBentOverRow.html

Dumbell rows right there....and

http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/BBFrontSquat.html

front squats. That's bodybuilder style...with the arms crossed over the bar.

http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/OlympicLifts/FrontSquat.html

This is the clean grip front squat. I find this superior for keeping the weight on the delts and keeping the body upright, but it's very difficult and akward at first. There's probably no one at ur gym that does them like this lol. I have never seen anyone do it...I had to teach myself.

Hack squats are on a machine. You either have one at ur gym or you don't...I prefer front squats as I think they are just better cuz they are free weights and they do much more for stability and core strength.

Honestly, I've been using the same kinda periodization for months now, there isn't a REAL reason to change from an undulating model like that unless progress REALLY stalls. If and when that happens you can make subtle changes and crank it out.

[$|-|U(V)AYeL]

snip

Thanks to your sick work out, and my knowledge of nutrition i've made some SICK progress. Me and you should get into work together MAGNUS, you make the work outs, I make the diets and we sell it to SRK fat noobs for profit :looney: :rofl: :wgrin:

[Soldier Zero]

Shu, majority of your BF% went down from doing cardio or eating clean plus the program?

[$|-|U(V)AYeL]

Shu, majority of your BF% went down from doing cardio or eating clean plus the program?

The latter, cardio I did once in a while. I'm assuming you want to lose BF, what are your stats? What are you doing currently? :annoy:

[MagnusMadness]

The latter, cardio I did once in a while. I'm assuming you want to lose BF, what are your stats? What are you doing currently? :annoy:

I mean, damn, you are so lucky. If I knew about working out and nutrition when I first started I could've made sick gains too. I had NO direction really though, and progress was slow even for a noob for me...:sad:

There is no reason you can't start adding some calories in and get up over 170 or 180@10%BF or less by the summer IMO.

How tall are you?

You don't have before/after pics do you? Even if it isn't DRASTIC, for 5-6 weeks, if it was really noticeable that would be so cool to see.

[$|-|U(V)AYeL]

I mean, damn, you are so lucky. If I knew about working out and nutrition when I first started I could've made sick gains too. I had NO direction really though, and progress was slow even for a noob for me...:sad:

There is no reason you can't start adding some calories in and get up over 170 or 180@10%BF or less by the summer IMO.

How tall are you?

You don't have before/after pics do you? Even if it isn't DRASTIC, for 5-6 weeks, if it was really noticeable that would be so cool to see.

My goal is to see abs by Nov. 19th (b-day.) I still don't see abs :sad: I'm starting to see them but not clear yet. Adding interval into the equation to hopefully see abs, but i'm afraid i might lose muscle :'( So i'm going to beef up my protein more. After I attain abs I plan on doing clean bulking using that article you posted by CT. BTW, his new "rant" article is pretty sweet-check it out. According to that article if you're training for aesthetic purposes (which I am) you should use isolation exercises, HOWEVER I think I need to add some mass overall before I can focus on improving parts lol.

I'm 6 1 :wgrin: So i'm still pretty skinny.

Before:
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8521/picture54zo9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/8711/picture55oq6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

After:
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4551/picture72wh2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


You can see the lower abs forming, It doesn't seem like much of a change but I can definetly notice the differences.

[MagnusMadness]

My goal is to see abs by Nov. 19th (b-day.) I still don't see abs :sad: I'm starting to see them but not clear yet. Adding interval into the equation to hopefully see abs, but i'm afraid i might lose muscle :'( So i'm going to beef up my protein more. After I attain abs I plan on doing clean bulking using that article you posted by CT. BTW, his new "rant" article is pretty sweet-check it out. According to that article if you're training for aesthetic purposes (which I am) you should use isolation exercises, HOWEVER I think I need to add some mass overall before I can focus on improving parts lol.

I'm 6 1 :wgrin: So i'm still pretty skinny.

Before:
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8521/picture54zo9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/8711/picture55oq6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

After:
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4551/picture72wh2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


You can see the lower abs forming, It doesn't seem like much of a change but I can definetly notice the differences.

I can definitely tell a difference, and that's pretty big considering you've been training for a little over a month.

His rant is "ok" but a lot of other coaches would disagree on some points.

But something that he doesn't mention in his own rant is that alot of his programs cycle in body part splits sometimes, and in the same program he uses upper/lower and full body splits as well. A friend of mine is doing one of his year long programs now and it cycles to body part splits for short periods of time.

But you are right about one thing, building overall mass is what's important right now. When you reach a point where you feel you REALLY have weak points, some isolation would be fine.

Something you can do with that program is this.....If you can handle the work capacity right now and you feel ok to start adding an exercise or two here and there...you can cycle in different isolatory exercises. example...this month you do some bi's+tri's work after every workout....maybe bb curls and overhead extensions or just different arm isolation work at the end. Just one exercise a piece....then next month maybe incline flies and reverse flies one day...maybe some straight arm pulldowns and pullovers, etc etc. This is something I've just started doing. I was having a hard time choosing between isolation work between larger muscles and arms...so I am going to cycle between the two of them.

Don't misunderstand though, only top pro's really need to isolate muscles all the time and they do so at the expense of joint integrity and flexibility sometimes as well. As a recreational bodybuilder, I really recommend a balanced program with compound lifts to create a well proportioned, healthy physique.

[thedude.com]

Heavy on the cardio I assume?

Anyone know?


O_O ....eeer . all i know is that martial artist are sickos .

i'm starting to do dips , pull ups and push ups now . just to train endurance and strength .

[Soldier Zero]

The latter, cardio I did once in a while. I'm assuming you want to lose BF, what are your stats? What are you doing currently? :annoy:

BF is 15% (or 16) right now, I'm 5'9" and 145. Right now I'm hardly following a strict/good diet and program. I only lift currently so I don't get lazy and out of shape.

[denjin]

Not a joke:

15% is really good isn't it?

I mean, at 10%, that's like beach material right?

Again, not a joke. No sarcasm here.

[Obliterate]

I do MMA, and shitloads of cardio, definetly helps with endurance in fights. Right now I'm on a cutting phase to get in under 170 pounds (right now I'm 173 with 9% bodyfat) for a fight coming up at the end of the year. I compete in mass destruction, reality fighting, and NAGA tournaments that are local to the tri-state or east coast. Anybody from New Jersey here that does MMA, I'm looking for a new school and I am having a hard time finding one (that's within a feasible distance). I love my old school but the hours aren't convenient with my new work schedule. If anybody needs some advice on nutrition, working out or MMA let me know, or if you are in the NJ area and need a sparring partner let me know again. I'm pretty muscular, but I'm not about bodybuilding per se (IE going for definition or size in certain areas), I just train really fucking hard for competition and that's my main concern not muscularity, so keep that in mind. I also train old school, dips, squats, deadlifts, etc. None of that plyometric shit while standing on a balancing ball bullshit. Anything that involves thinking isn't for me.

[Obliterate]

Oh, and at 9% bodyfat I can see my abs, but for that shredded beach look you need to come in at under 5%. At least in my case anyways. For that shredded eight pack I find that you have to be in under 5%, but I also don't tan, and do the things that bodybuilders do to bring out that definition even more. I remember one time I was 3% bodyfat at like 154 pounds (skinnier then, didn't pack as much muscle), and my abs looked fuckin ridiculous shredded with veinage! The problem is that staying at that low of a bodyfat is really really fucking hard, and long term isn't good for your body (at least going by reports I've read, whether they are true are not I have no idea). I eventually replaced the abs with a nice layer of fat, hey I'm a chef I got hungry. I have since lost that fat, but anyways to answer your question again...

For beach ready abs, I recommend coming in under 5% bodyfat. I also use a Tanita bodyfat scale (set for athlete) so how accurate that is I have no idea.

[thedude.com]

i thought 3% = dead man , or something ?

[Cowboyday]

What's a good way to get started in cardio (and general fitness) if you've been a fucking couch potato due to mmorpg addiction? I'm a pretty scrawny guy - 5'11'' 125 lbs - but I'm not really looking to bulk up, just to get into shape.

[Chaos]

Oh, and at 9% bodyfat I can see my abs, but for that shredded beach look you need to come in at under 5%. At least in my case anyways. For that shredded eight pack I find that you have to be in under 5%, but I also don't tan, and do the things that bodybuilders do to bring out that definition even more. I remember one time I was 3% bodyfat at like 154 pounds (skinnier then, didn't pack as much muscle), and my abs looked fuckin ridiculous shredded with veinage! The problem is that staying at that low of a bodyfat is really really fucking hard, and long term isn't good for your body (at least going by reports I've read, whether they are true are not I have no idea). I eventually replaced the abs with a nice layer of fat, hey I'm a chef I got hungry. I have since lost that fat, but anyways to answer your question again...

For beach ready abs, I recommend coming in under 5% bodyfat. I also use a Tanita bodyfat scale (set for athlete) so how accurate that is I have no idea.

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA. Thank you for revealing you know absolutely nothing about bodyfat measurements. Patently incorrect information abounds.

[Soldier Zero]

5% is some hard shit, I mean, that's strict ass dieting and intense cardio.

[thedude.com]

5% is some hard shit, I mean, that's strict ass dieting and intense cardio.

plus drugs

[MagnusMadness]

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA. Thank you for revealing you know absolutely nothing about bodyfat measurements. Patently incorrect information abounds.

lolz.



guys, 3-4% bodyfat is what a typical bodybuilder steps on stage at. It won't kill you...but it isn't very healthy, not to mention they are dehydrated as well on stage. And you don't HAVE to take drugs to get that low in BF, there are natural bodybuilders that get there too...it might just be a little easier with drugs and you tend to lose less muscle during the diet when on some kind of anabolic.

[Obliterate]

Ha ha ha ha what bitch? I don't know about bodyfat? I said I use a tanita bodyfat scale REGULARLY, yes there are more accurate ways. The most accurate way is in which you pay someone to plunk your ass in a vat of water, and the amount of water you displace equates to your bodyfat. But am I going to spend $150 to check my bodyfat each time. Fuck no. And bodyfat calipers are highly inaccurate as well. The bodyfat scales made by Tanita (the higher end models) are fairly accurate, I'd say within +/- 2%. And yes, 5% bodyfat is achievable and maintainable, and 2 to 3% bodyfat is achievable...but like I said EXTREMELY fucking difficult to maintain for a long time. Why do you think bodybuilders only do it before a competition? Its not healthy for your body to be at ridiculously low levels of bodyfat for long periods of time, your body NEEDS an essential level, and I believe that level is minimally 2 to 3% for guys, and about 4 to 5% for women.

You say I'm inaccurate about my response but don't give any information or specifics as to why. Which just makes you sound like a whining bitch. If I am wrong then WHY am I wrong?

Oh, and on the comment of drugs. Hello, I said I was at 154 pounds, who the fuck needs drugs to be at that weight at 5 feet 10 inches? Hmm? Seriously, I need to take fucking steroids to be that skinny? I don't think so. And yeah, there are cutting drugs out there like Cytomel and Winny V, but one they are WAY too fucking expensive, two they fuck up your thyroid and other hormones, and three I don't have a reliable source, and don't need one cause I would never spend that much money.

The best supplement I have ever taken for fat loss is ephedrine, but that's banned for some comps. Ephedrine is still readily available as an "asthma" supplement, and is effective, and you can still buy it. And its fuck loads cheaper then cutting roids that may fuck you up permanently.

Personally, you are better off spending that money on real food.

Why is that everytime someone gets low bodyfat or gains muscles people start screaming bullshit or they are on roids or chemically dependent? I'm not saying I'm super shredded fucking Ronnie Coleman coming in at 300 pounds of muscle and squatting 2,000 pounds for fucks sake. I'm saying at one point in my life I had very low bodyfat, that was VERIFIED by a Tanita scale, calipers, and other means, and at that point is when I had an shredded and very visible eight pack, which was answering the previous posters question (again I'm only speaking for myself). If my bodyfat goes over 5 to 7% then my abs don't have great definition, maybe that's not the case for you or other people, but I can only speak for myself.

And like I said, I'm NOT a bodybuilder. I consider myself a more all-around athlete and could really give a flying fuck about how I look or how strong I am in comparision to other people.

[Obliterate]

At least Magnus has some knowledge. Pisses me off that people take months and years of hard ass work (weight lifting, cardio, MMA) and not to mention strict nutrition (may I remind you I'm a chef, try making cheesecakes 2 months in on a cutting phase and come back to me) and simply shrug it off as roids, drugs, or bullshit.

[MagnusMadness]

Whoa there man, I don't think anybody was accusing you of taking drugs..(?)

Chaos has a PhD. He is very knowledgeable. Just not very nice sometimes. lol. BF levels and definition vary person to person but the norm is...

10%=visible abs, the lower u get of course the more definition you have, but that applies to all things.

3-4%= BBers on stage. At least the really competitive ones.

Women are a TOTALLY different story however, They are physiologically designed to carry more fat even at their leanest (ass, titties, thighs) They also have smaller bodies with much less musculature than males...so the numbers look a LOT different. *10% of 120=12 (woman) and 10% of 200=20 (man) So the male in this figure is carrying almost twice as much fat but is the same %...get it? Long story short, a woman even approaching 10%BF is pretty fuggin ripped.

[Chaos]

Where to begin. First of all at a massive 170 lbs. believe me I'm not under the impression your on roids. Secondly pending height and dosage, you very well could be. And when you start saying your abs aren't visible over 5-7% you are just patently incorrect. Period. The scale is incorrect more likely, but trust me the numbers your getting are WAY lower than they should be. In fact most people are off by about 3-5% in what they think a BF% looks like.

And as an aside being a chef doesn't mean you know jack shit about nutrition, it means you know how to cook. Big difference. Finally I seriously doubt you've ever been under 5% natural. In fact I'm almost 100% sure you haven't. I've seen lots of natural shows and *never* seen anyone legitmately under 5% bf. You can see outlinded abs fairly easily in anyone with abdominal musculature to begin with at 12-15% when flexed.

[denjin]

So what do MMA guys do to train?

Punching bags all day? Sparring all the time?

[Obliterate]

Dumbass, I'm a chef, but I have a degree in Biology with a double major in Sports Medicine. I know how to cook, and what food does to your body. Thats why I make money on the side consulting people on menu creation to meet their desired needs, IE weight gain, weight loss, nutrition for athletes, etc. I know the difference between simple and complex carbs, various proteins, fats, why you should use simple carbs and whey protein after working out etc. And yes you can get under 5% natural, its not a big deal as MANY many athletes who get tested by IOC on a regular basis (almost monthly)by blood and urine tests do so. Just look at gymnists. You can get shredded without roids. I said I, repeat ME, as I stated in my previous text that I cannot see MY abs over 7% bodyfat. That's just me. I know guys at the gym who have visible abs, but the rest of their body looks like hell, we are all different. When I gain weight I start to gain in right away in my abs and buttocks, thats the way my body stores fat, so obviously when my bodyfat goes from 5% to lets say 9%, I will obviously lose tremendous definition in my abs. Also, I do not tan, like other bodybuilders or people who frequently workout do, the darker you are the easier it is to see definition. I don't tan, don't give a shit about spending time in a tanning booth or using tanning lotion. Just because you go to bodybuilding shows doesn't mean you know shit about anything. I watch porn, doesn't mean I'm a sex expert. And despite what you believe, not every athlete, bodybuilder or guy who has money, looks, muscularity, or anything for that matter, doesn't mean they cheated or took a pill to get there. You're just making excuses for your own damn short comings.

I also know people who have 12 to 15% bodyfat, and their abs ARE NOT visible, so that statement is flawed as hell.

[Obliterate]

To train? Weight lifting 4 times a week, cardio daily (I use a stepmill and a recumbant bike - High Intensity), sparring 1 to 3 times a week (kind of difficult with work, I usually work like 50 hours a week). I usually dedicate a day just to MMA and spend like 4 to 6 hours at the facility I train at. I find it easier then going 3 times a week for lets say 1 to 2 hours. I also try to go to my kenpo school as much as possible but again, time is short, so maybe once or twice a week at best.

My MMA training and fighting is a hobby for me, not a way for me to make money or what have you. I'm sure there's guys out there that all they do is train 24/7, now how they pay their bills is beyond me.

Everyone is different, some guys only train maybe once a week or once a month, and don't really give a shit about what weight class they fall in to. Some guys go crazy and make statistical analysis of their opponents and train based off of video tape and what have you. I fall somewhere in between. My job comes before my hobbies.

[$|-|U(V)AYeL]

You guys are being retarded.

Either way,

Magnus: I'm 10% and I don't see abs yet :'( I'm using a shitty fat caliper though.

[Chaos]

Calipers are actually pretty accurate when used by a professional. Just be patient man you'll get there. I'm not in a pissing match but obliterate is just incorrect on what he assumes are correct bodyfat levels. The problem is the inaccuracy of his scale but whatever. Now he's gone from a chef to a double majored biology grad. Interesting.

[MagnusMadness]

Now he's gone from a chef to a double majored biology grad. Interesting.

Rofl.

[thedude.com]

magnus : can you list out a few exercises for fullbody workout ?

i'm not paticularly concern about body fat now . i have 15% .

[Obliterate]

Yeah it is interesting, I went to college full-time while working full-time as a chef. I wanted to get a degree in something as opposed to nothing. I could not afford culinary school (the total cost was about $130,000 for four years), while county college and then transferring to in-state Rutgers was a total of about 25,000. So yeah it is interesting and does make sense. When I got my degree I was making $45,000 as a sous chef, and a entry level job for biology was around $30,000 to $35,000 (I graduated in 2004 with a BS in Biological Sciences, took some more courses later and got a double major in Sports Medicine). I actually gave it a try at a local company, did inside sales/customer service but I didn't like it, so I stayed in the culinary field. I'm glad that I have a degree in the sciences because it helps me understand how the world works and how to try to have logical arguements with someone. And I'm not saying that my bodyfat scale is the end-all answer and is 100% accurate, nothing in this is world can be said with 100% accuracy (one of those things about the scientific method you know). I agree with you that there are better ways of getting your bodyfat taken, and I DID get them taken that way ALONG with the bodyfat scale. So I had it verified by three different sources (scale, calipers, and whatever the hell the name is for that water bodyfat test...forgot).

And also, I'm not saying that what works for me and what happens to me is the all encompassing answer for everyone. That would be flawed as hell. I'm just speaking from personal experience and visual observations of others. Like I said, I know people who have fairly low bodyfats and no visible abs, and others who have higher bodyfats and more visible abs. But I have yet to see someone who has that shredded "beach ready" abs unless they under 5% bodyfat. At least in my MIND of what I consider "beach ready". That could be left up to interpretation really.

I also don't want to turn this thread into an arguement, not that I mind argueing with you. If everyone agreed with what I had to say life would be boring anyways.

I also believe that the statement of people with extremely low bodyfat had to take drugs to get to that point, but that's your opinion and if you want to keep it then fine. I know many people who do take roids and others who don't; personally I don't because of the cost and dangers of it. If one day roids become legal and I can get them from a reputable doctor, its cheap, effective, and won't make my nuts shrink then maybe I will reconsider. But now there's no way in hell.

And like I said man, I'm more of all around athlete then someone who cares about how he looks. Having muscularity is just a nice side effect.



Anyways, nuff with the argueing cause argueing on the internet is pretty pointless.

Full body workout? Damn, I don't really do those. Too many muscle groups in one day in my opinion. There are so many books out now with so many splits that I would recommend picking one up. Or you can check out free resources that have many splits posted, such as www.bodybuilding.com (just skip through the BS). Let me wipe the dust off some of my books and see if I can pull something up for you. Do you have access to a gym or are you working out at home with no equipment? What are the resources available to you?

Oh and uh Ayel (your name has too many symbols for me to type it all out); like I said I am at about 9 or 10% now and I have vary vague ab definition, so you're not alone. A lot has to do with subcutaneous water retention; that's why bodybuilders dehydrate themselves before a comp. I don't recommend dehydration, just keep working at it. Also, what color is your skin? The darker your skin, the more definition you can see, so you may want to tan. Also, I find not having body hair (IE shaving it off) increases definition as well. I don't know how you train abs, but I find adding resistance to my ab exercises helps, such as using an ab machine, weighted crunches (using a pulley rope), weighted knee raises, decline crunches with a medicine ball, etc. But again the main component of your abs is bodyfat levels.

[MagnusMadness]

I think bodyfat images are skewed because of the fact that you can't just look at someone and tell where they are. There is almost no visible difference between say 13 and 16%BF.

I could pick up an issue of men's health or any magazine for that matter and find 10 guys right now that have great abs but aren't at 4% bodyfat.



Ok full body exercises can be anything really, it's the way you arrange them that count. Just make sure the meat and potatoes of ur workout are compound movements. I'm not writing anymore workouts for this thread however, I've done it like 4 or 5 times now. You can either use those workouts or use them as a guide.

[Chaos]

What magnus is talking about is a concept I like to call the"lean body" zone. There is a pretty substantial range of bodyfat levels in most people between where they are not ripped, and yet the abs remain visible. Its probably a 5% window where there is no really appreciable difference in appearance so it is easy to fool yourself into believing you have stopped either losing or gaining. This is the reason so many people claim "I was cutting and then gained 15 lbs in a month and gained no bodyfat". Water weight and this strange bodyweight phenomena.

[denjin]

[QUOTE=MagnusMadness;3406181]There is almost no visible difference between say 13 and 16%BF. QUOTE]

Oh yeah...forgot about that.

[Obliterate]

Yeah, I don't notice that much of a difference in bodyfat percentages from lets say 12 to 10%, but once you go single digit then going from 7% to lets say 6% becomes very apparent...and more difficult. One thing I noticed when I was at very low bodyfat is the amount of veinage, I looked like an anatomy picture. Again I was a skinnier person at this bodyfat (154 lbs.), I decided to bulk up because my strength at that weight wasn't that great, so I got back up to around 185 (added some muscle and fat of course), and now I'm at 173ish. I'd like to get in at 167, so I don't have to worry about dehydrating myself before a competition (MMA). I never understood that philosophy of dehydrating one's self, training like a lunatic 24 hours before the event to lose some pounds and make weight. Why not lose the weight way in advance? For instance my fight is at the end of the year and I have an event at the beginning of 07, and I only have about 4 more pounds to go. Why wait the day before?

[HeaT]

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1809262865/trailer

check out the spartan training, it shows how they trained the dudes in the movie...i think they went through 3 months of training before they started to film. the dude at the beginning who introduces the clip, does not work out and he only worked out for the movie and after the movie was done did not stick with working out (i saw this in another interview)...if you look later in the clip you will see him wearing the spartan outfit looks jacked as shit...did they put him on roids? because to look like that in 3 months is rediculous...

im outi

Roberth

[MagnusMadness]

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1809262865/trailer

check out the spartan training, it shows how they trained the dudes in the movie...i think they went through 3 months of training before they started to film. the dude at the beginning who introduces the clip, does not work out and he only worked out for the movie and after the movie was done did not stick with working out (i saw this in another interview)...if you look later in the clip you will see him wearing the spartan outfit looks jacked as shit...did they put him on roids? because to look like that in 3 months is rediculous...

im outi

Roberth

I've seen it debated on another site. They say that while some need to put on a ton of muscle inside a short period of time probably do use drugs.....the coaches were all in accordance that someone who doesn't have alot of training experience is getting ready for a role, he is the "perfect" scenario. He has someone to plan and cook all of his meals, he trains, rests, and eats. So the gains this person could make will be astounding.

At the same time, not all these guys need to gain weight, just as the guy in the clip said. Sometimes just gettin ripped will make you look bigger.

[Soldier Zero]

Sometimes just gettin ripped will make you look bigger.

Indeed, I remember the article you linked about bulking/cutting mentioned the illusion of being "big".

[HeaT]

At the same time, not all these guys need to gain weight, just as the guy in the clip said. Sometimes just gettin ripped will make you look bigger.


that is true, but the guy who plays the main character was not big at all before the movie...anyway, i just thought it was interesting...im sure they got them on supplements imaginable that are close to steriods but are not really considered steriods...

im outi

Roberth

[bill_rizer]

My MMA training and fighting is a hobby for me, not a way for me to make money or what have you. I'm sure there's guys out there that all they do is train 24/7, now how they pay their bills is beyond me.


Ryu and Terry Bogard have pulled this off for years, there duffle bags are full of money.

I have a friend who is a very good MMA fighter his crazy on bruce lee and follows his ways to the max, he does shitty jobs here and there his currently working in some gym training kids, all he does is train and fight and get laid, so it is possible.

This bodyfat debate was interesting.

[Soldier Zero]

What're my rotator cuffs? I'm not even sure if that's the right name.

Only asking because my right shoulder's ball-and-socket area hurts a little when I do simple things. For example, I was trying to scrub some stuff off a table today and when I started to press hard when cleaning, the area hurt.

It's not as bad with my left side, but the right one is straight painful at times.

[MagnusMadness]

What're my rotator cuffs? I'm not even sure if that's the right name.

Only asking because my right shoulder's ball-and-socket area hurts a little when I do simple things. For example, I was trying to scrub some stuff off a table today and when I started to press hard when cleaning, the area hurt.

It's not as bad with my left side, but the right one is straight painful at times.

The rotator cuff is comprised of 4 small muscles....the supraspinatus, infraspinatus, teres minor, and teres major.

You might have a little tendonitus goin on there bud. But there's no way for me to really know...*shrugs*




that is true, but the guy who plays the main character was not big at all before the movie...anyway, i just thought it was interesting...im sure they got them on supplements imaginable that are close to steriods but are not really considered steriods...

im outi

Roberth

Steroids is VERY real in hollywood. Just not completely necessary ALL the time. :wink:

[denjin]

Thank you for the video. VERY interesting find.

Sometimes I wonder if my workout is intense enough, and seeing as how I am not 'nervous' and 'ready to vomit' then I guess it isn't hard enough. Hm.

You guys aren't all NERVOUS and shit pre-workout are you?

I always figured for Hollywood, it was just the fact that they had 110% of their diets planned by an expert. And thus they had huge gains. But in an industry where little girls vomit up their dinner, steriods should not be a surprise.

[xcfrisco]

How low am I supposed to go for back squats? I ask this cuz I almost popped a hernia doing squats for my 5x5 week of periodization. I told the guy next to me what happened and he said I go down too low. However, I am under the impression that ass to grass squats are the way to go. This happened during the second set of my workout, so I didn't go nearly as low as I normally do for the rest of the exercise. Shit felt way too easy not going down all the way. Thoughts?

[Soldier Zero]

The rotator cuff is comprised of 4 small muscles....the supraspinatus, infraspinatus, teres minor, and teres major.

You might have a little tendonitus goin on there bud. But there's no way for me to really know...*shrugs*

Alright thanks, I'll try taking it easy this week and see if there's any change later.

[HeaT]

How low am I supposed to go for back squats? I ask this cuz I almost popped a hernia doing squats for my 5x5 week of periodization. I told the guy next to me what happened and he said I go down too low. However, I am under the impression that ass to grass squats are the way to go. This happened during the second set of my workout, so I didn't go nearly as low as I normally do for the rest of the exercise. Shit felt way too easy not going down all the way. Thoughts?

my thoughts are you should be squatting again if you actually got a hernia hahahaha wtf...

im outi

Roberth

[MagnusMadness]

my thoughts are you should be squatting again if you actually got a hernia hahahaha wtf...

im outi

Roberth

lol, he said popped a hernia like he "popped" a zit lolz.




frisco, anyone who tells you that you squat too low is automatically disqualified from giving you anymore advice.

Now if you have really poor hip flexibility then you need to be stretching to reach greater depths as opposed to something a lot of people do...relax and "fall" into the whole.

[xcfrisco]

I say popped cuz I went down for that squat and when I tried coming up, something in my very lower abdomen felt like it just exploded. I've never had a hernia before, but I know what it is, so that's the only explanation I can give.

And another thing for back squats, my right arm goes completely numb when I do them. Although it doesn't really affect the rest of my exercises, the rest of my workouts are super uncomfortable to do. Is their anything else I can do to replace back squats? Or do I just bite the bullet and hope my arm doesnt fall off.